Did Surly's Todd the Axe Man Change?

Thanks for this post. We lived in Minnesota 18 years (1999 - 2017), and I became a full-fledged Surly fan in 2008. We visited the original brewery and the “Mothership,” and fully enjoyed both. I had Todd in January 2015 right after it released on the recommendation of the bartender, who said it was better than Abrasive.

Understand, Abrasive is my favorite beer, so I was a bit dubious, but Todd was indeed spectacular, especially fresh on tap, and I enjoyed many 4-packs whilst living in Minnesota.

But Abrasive was still my favorite - until the 2016 batch, when it changed (to my palate) to a much maltier flavor profile, with the Citra/Warrior hop profile significantly reduced. There were many posts here about the perceived change, so my question: did the recipe for Abrasive in fact change?

I understand if you can’t answer that, but I’ve always wondered, because Abrasive in the 2012 - 2015 era was as good as American brewing gets, IMHO, but in 2016, it was definitely a different beer, at least to my palate.

 

I don't recall exactly, but there was a time after the new brewery opened up when Surly was having trouble with the new brewing system. There was one batch of Abrasive that was flat & appallingly bad. Perhaps someone with a photographic memory or better notes can let you know when that was (I thought it was 2015) but it was in that general time frame.

 

Sadly, I can’t answer firsthand. That was before my time at Surly so I didn’t have a great basis for comparison. I think had Abrasive for the first time in probably 2016 while living in North Carolina and it blew my mind. I’ve been drinking it ever since, and I still love it.
To be completely honest, I think there have been years where we’ve done some dumb things with the beer. For example a few years back, it was brewed like a regular limited release...brewed and packaged all at once. That led to older beer in the market which definitely impacts flavor. Last year and this year we went back to brewing smaller batches more frequently, and that freshness and hop pop has definitely picked-up, code dates are better, and the beer turns quicker at retail.

 

That was 2015 (flat & bad, though I purchased some "very good" cans), IIRC, the 2016 wasn't flat, but it was maltier to the point that it tasted like a different beer. The best Abrasive I had (2014, IIRC), when you popped open the can, the hop aromas literally hurled themselves at you. I had a couple of 4-packs that were 3 days old, and I can still remember the aromas and flavors.

I've still never had a beer that good.

 

Thanks for the reply. What you say makes a lotta sense (brew smaller batches more frequently = fresher, better tasting beer).

Sounds like it's time to make a trip to Chicago to see if I can score some. Hopefully, there'll be full distro for Surly products here in Northern Indiana. That, of course, will require the purchase of another beer fridge.

 

See : Alpine as well. You can have a recipe but that doesn't always make it come alive. And I agree Brewing to the level of beers in which we’re talking is art. It’s a shame when world class beers just kinda slip away.

 

Sounds like I need to give Abrasive another chance.

Twice I've had it, and been severely underwhelmed.

 

Also, if fresh Todd isn't available and you are in the upper midwest, give Mad Butcher (https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/27979/196537/) by Mankato a shot. It is also a Citra-Mosaic beer, though probably not with Golden Promise so less malt backbone and more citric bite. I don't think enough people know about this little MN gem. I try to spread the word.

 

I only drink it on tap at Lake and Irving to wash down their buttermilk chicken sandwich. It and the sandwich are always excellent. I suppose I should try it in a can sometime and see what i think.

 

Interesting. I've never had anything that rose about the level of decent, & plenty of crap, from Mankato (& I've been to their taproom as well). It's been a couple years though, perhaps it's time for a limited re-visit.

 

So please enough to call up france44 and order it, just ask for the canning date first. Late time I ordered they sent me 3-4 month old beer and I was really disappointed, and at $18 a 4 pk plus shipping it’s a commitment. There shouldn’t be any difference between a one week DIPA or a one month old beer, no beer using modern components and technology should be that unstable. And I’m a freak. Some beer once you get into the 3 month really can degrade, hops make a difference, storage conditions, total oxygen on packing etc. Funny some last 4-5 months quite easily too, no idea how this is so though.

 

Dale, my recollection is that you are a fan of Bell's Two Hearted, am I remembering correctly?

According to Bell's Brewing Two Hearted is 'good' for up to 6 months. Do you agree here?

Cheers!

 

I drank some super fresh Abrasive last week. No zing lost.

 

Todd Haug was the head brewer at Surly from the beginning until his departure. IIRC, there was some kind of internal kerfuffle involving his wife, who was also employed by Surly, and the owner/founder, Omar Ansari.

Anyway, Todd is also a heavy metal guitarist, and is the name-sake of Todd the Axe Man (axe meaning guitar).

I understand why Surly finally removed Todd's name from the beer, and the need to keep brand identification, but, really, simply calling the beer Axe Man is just a bit empty.

He is now a brewer at Three Floyds.

Here is a local article written when he left:
http://mspmag.com/eat-and-drink/foodie/brewer-todd-haug-goes-to-chigolands-three-floyds/

 

I agree with this, and the underlined part likely has offended a number of the local Surly fans.

 

Can't speak to cans, but I was at the taproom this summer and Axe Man tasted as good as I remembered.

 

I’ve never had 2H that old, no need to, I can get it here anywhere between 14 days to 30-40 days old. I wouldn’t buy it that old. No idea if Centennial holds up that well, but yes imo Bells 2H is a revelation, it’s a gas station beer here, its on tap at any of the better beer bars, it’s usually really fresh most places. If there’s a beer home run this one is it.

 

Two Hearted is the gold standard for IPA’s that can sit on the shelf for 60 days and still maintain its flavor profile, IMHO. It is indeed a revelation for other breweries to mimic.

 

I meant they haven't brewed a new offering that has been any good since Todd's departure. And many of the old greats no longer impress (Darkness is still good but no longer amazing, Todd the Axe Man is less balanced and flavorful, and Wet has been terrible the last two years. Abrasive was off last year though it's solid again this year.) They dumped their entire 12th anniversary batch... Their BC Small Batch series brews have been almost overwhelmingly awful. Inside the Upside Down was a solid kettle sour but that has been the outlier. Essentially my point is this: the head brewers they currently employ are a massive step down in talent from Todd, and their product is reflecting that.

 

That is also my recollection on his departure. Todd gave Surly it’s edge, IMHO. Since he left, they seem to be “chasing” a bit instead of leading, as you referenced in another post in this thread.

My son, who lives in MSP, refuses to visit Surly now that Todd’s gone. I’ve told him he’s cutting off his nose to spite his face, to no avail.