Dry Hop Timing in NEIPAs?

For a 5gal batch using Wyeast 1318,I usually do about 2-4oz 48hrs after I pitch (during peak fermentation) and then another 4-6oz after fermentation and about 3 days before I keg. I’ve never had a NeIPA drop it’s haze in the keg (kegs only last about 8 weeks in the fridge)

this pic was about 7 weeks after kegging

 

I don't have a scientific comparison (no control group) but my practice is both - half my DH nearing the end of active fermentation and the other half a few days before kegging.

 

I’ve done it lots of different ways but haven’t noticed one way or the other producing noticeably different results in terms of haze.

This is a subject I have been paying a lot of attention to since using floating dip tubes on some kegs. I noticed my NEIPAs were going somewhat lifeless after a few weeks when using the floating dip tube. I couldn’t figure it out until one day I decided to (yikes) invert my keg a few times, let it settle a bit and then pour a glass. Boom it’s back to 100% punch in face hop flavour and haze similar to when it was kegged. It seems like a cringe worthy move but it totally worked!

I know there is a lot of talk about haze being a product of the process and not the goal , but I strongly believe that the haze (granted it’s mostly hop derived) kind of should be the goal.

All that said (I’m curious what other people’s experience with haze stability has been) I am starting to believe the best bang for buck is to let the beer drop bright, and then aggressively dry hop. Under CO2 obviously.

Also the latest Master Brewers Podcast is on haze stability and might be worth checking out, Although it focusses mostly on using alternative hop products like tetra and extracts etc...

 

I also feel that it doesn't make much of a difference. I've tried biotrans, traditional, double DH, DH at wort transfer into fermenter, etc. I've also seen a clear beer turn totally hazy once dry hops were added.

 

One more thing to add is IIRC Scott Janish talks about the correlation between haze and overall hop oil content... I’ll have to try and find it but that book is kind of hard to navigate ...

 

When I use to make them I'd dump a bunch at FO a bunch towards the end of ferment and another bunch 3 days after that.
Bottles only here and like above, they last 7 weeks at best. Most of the time it was more like 4 weeks if the regulars really liked it.

 

I dry hop day 2 fermentation and day 5 as it’s slowing down/stopped. No scientific data just what I’ve found tastes good and likely reduces oxygen exposure.

 

You probably won't get the right answer since most do both in the same batch but i think the WP beats the hops up and makes a difference.

 

I believe that adding hops during fermentation is essential to getting a good stable haze and the flavor that goes with it. I pitch hops and yeast together. Also whirlpool and dry hopping, pretty much equal quantities for all 3 additions (I usually do a small first wort hop as well).

 

Probably made 200+ hoppy beers over the last 3-4 years. Tried just about every grist bill, hopping regime, water profile, etc.

The most stable haze has always been when dry hopping after fermentation has finished and slightly cooling to drop as much yeast as possible before dry hopping. Large DH amounts with hops high in polyphenols are what really create haze, and haze that lasts.

I use a vey high floccing yeast, no wheat or oats, no hops during fermentation, and most beers never clear.

There are lots of studies out there that have shown adding lots of high alpha hops during fermentation can cause some serious off flavors/aromas. The new American Noble hops from YCH are interesting for this matter. A lot of the stuff that actually gets biotransformed is found in the bracht material and not in the lupulin. You can add a bunch of these hops without all the alpha acids.

Most of the top breweries producing this “style” aren’t adding hops during fermentation.

 

Another data point but completely agree here. I think my haze stability and flavor has increased 10 fold since moving all DH to after a soft crash to drop yeast. I've also noticed I never get hop burn either. Huge plus.

I've started dry hopping in a keg with a floating dip tube so I can rotate it. I tip it in the morning before I go to work and at night when I come home. 3 days. Transfer to a fresh serving keg. Haze and hop flavor for months.

 

Do you have a filtered floating dip tube or are you bagging your hops ? I have been bagging but intend to pick up the CBDS filtered dip tubes at some point here - hoping for better extraction...

 

I have the CBDS with filter. Toss those bad boys in commando and let them to their thing. Works wonderfully!

 

I recall an interview with Henry Nguyen at Monkish (I think on Craft Beer and Brewing?) where he swore by dropping as much yeast before dry hop as possible. They seem to do pretty well with their IPAs!

I stopped cold crashing after running into too many issues with suck back. I use SS brewbuckets with the 90 degree barb fitting. I run a silicone tube from the fermenter to a keg to purge during fermentation, and a blowoff from the keg to a bucket of sanitizer. I'm not confident that if I cold crash I wouldn't depressurize the keg and blow my O2 barrier.

What do all you cold crashers do to prevent O2 before dryhop?

 

I personally do not perform cold crashing but if I wanted to do this I would consider using a mylar balloon filled with CO2 from the fermentor prior to cold crashing - the suck back would then be CO2 vs. air.

You can read more here:

http://brulosophy.com/2018/05/10/7-methods-for-reducing-cold-side-oxidation-when-brewing-beer/

Cheers!

 

I tried that once actually, and it was kind of a nightmare - I couldn't get it to seal properly and decided it was much too hacky of a solution to want to use regularly.

This is an interesting idea for sure. My main concern with the suck back is the negative pressure once the beer has contracted just letting the keg lid unseat ...

do you think if a spunding valve kept ~5 psi on the keg that would be enough to keep the system from leaking during the contraction? ...

The other issue there is that the SS brewbuckets are'nt great at holding even a little bit of pressure (in my experience anyway) I hooked up a gas line to the barbed fitting on my lid with some silicon tubing, set it to 1 or 2 psi, then proceeded to loose an entire bottle of gas from a leak in the lid gasket during cold crash...

 

Yup, a tight seal is needed for this to work.

Apparently Marshall Schott knows how to implement this.

Cheers!

 

If you are cold crashing in the keg anyway, just can remove the spunding valve and hit it with positive pressure.