Barleywine Appreciation Thread (2022)

Assuming @WCKDVBZ is talking about Komes barley wine - I see it's listed as "English" style. Was it "American" recently and did you put in a change request for that? That beer used to be listed as English. In the past, I put in a change request to have it switched to "American." I think it was only switched to American after a later exchange with @FBarber . I am not a fan of the splitting of American and English (I might be the only human in that camp)... and things like this will not be black and white - but to go along with the convention behind the split, the rational was that the Komes barley wine is dry-hopped with Amarillo, Citra and Chinook. The amount of dry-hopping and the resulting balance of the beer is another story though. Personally, I get a lot of hop character in that beer... at least I did 3 years ago when it first appeared in my area (I haven't seen more of it since then). In agreement with you, I also thought it was very sweet. I obviously have no idea if bottles on the shelf in other areas today are new or have been there for a few years. @DIM - I've had mixed reactions to it (some days liked it a lot, other days not so much), but I think it's definitely worth trying.

 

Why aren't you a fan of the splitting of American and English styles? They are very different.

For example, I absolutely hate Bigfoot and other hop-forward American Barleywines, but I love J.W. Lees, Sucaba, Jackie O's offerings and many other, malt and dark fruit forward English-style Barleywines. In my opinion, American-style Barleywines aren't well-balanced at all. Aggressive hops, pine, bitterness and citrus fruit flavor profiles clash with the maltiness.

 

That's definitely an English-style. Sounds like one of those J.W. Lees barleywines. Minus the double barrel treatment and 15% ABV.

Sweet, dark fruits = English

Hop-forward, piney = American

P.S. You weren't asking me, but I'll go ahead offer my opinion anyway.

Komes Raspberry Porter is even sweeter than their Barleywine. It tastes like they use raspberry jam.

 

Yeah, but the end product is a sweet, dark fruit-forward English-style Barleywine on steroids. The fact that it's barrel aged and has a 3-5% higher ABV, doesn't make it an American-style Barleywine. However, if you hop the crap out of it afterwards, then yeah, it'd be an American-style.

I also didn't say they taste like J.W. Lees. I was just simply stating that J.W. Lees Barleywines get various barrel treatments and have double digits ABV.

Sweet = English

Hoppy and piney = American

"So, the main difference is that American-style Barleywines have an intense hop bitterness, while English-style Barleywines are typically sweet, rich, and dessert-like."

https://www.tavour.com/post/an-american-english-barleywine-tasting-menu#:~:text=So, the main difference is,style side-by-side.

https://legacy.bjcp.org/2008styles/style19.php

 

@DIM, how about Old Ale vs English and American Barleywine???

 

I would just like to shout these guys out. When you think Alaska beer, most people think exclusively of Anchorage Brewing.

Well 49th State just knocked my socks off with this banger, and I can’t wait to get a hold of more from them. Cheers, and Happy Halloween!

A true-to-form, no-bullshit Barleywine. Rich, sweet notes of dark fruit, raisin, caramel, brown sugar, and vanilla. Finishes dangerously smooth, with no residual bitterness and an alarmingly soft warmth on the finish. This was fantastic.

 

Moksa is so good, earlier this year I popped my Moksa cherry and I’ve been seeking more out ever since. Wish so badly I could’ve made it to their most recent fest last weekend.

 

I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I meant that for @WCKDVBZ . I see it has since changed to American. I suspect the hand of @FBarber

I would put it a little bit differently. In the past, old ale was aged ale. In time, old ale devolved into something with less ties to its literal name, but it's generally going to be dark, it might not be aged, and there's latitude with the strength. Barley wine is always strong ale. It might be aged. Color can range from black to pale (particularly after WWII). A dark 8% ABV ale might be called an old ale today by one brewer or a barley wine by another, but it's essentially a strong ale no matter how you market it.

I don't view beer styles as black and white generally... but there's something about this barley wine divide that really inspires people to double down on the idea of black and white... that barley wine fits in two distinct boxes. The poll for this thread is a perfect example (no offense @DIM ... we're both on team BW ). As a barley wine lover, this either-or idea is off-putting to me.

People tend to view styles as something disjointed from time. Are we talking English barley wine circa 1900 or 2020? American barley wine circa 1990 or 2020? The A/E barley wine distinction really ignores the wide range of character in English barley wine. It dumbs the picture down considerably. It also ignores the transformation of American barley wine into what it is today (a significant evolution of the style that has captured the hearts and style expectations of drinkers). To me, it feels like this A/E style distinction is a frozen in time snapshot of 20 years ago give or take.

You are using the balance of hop character to malt character to differentiate the two. You mention Bigfoot as the American example. If one subscribes to the idea that American barley wine is a distinctive thing, then this beer is clearly in that box... because it is the extreme example. It's an outlier within the group. I get it though. No matter how many hops (of whatever origin) were crammed into English stock ale, surely there wasn't a barley wine before Bigfoot that tasted like Bigfoot. Move past Bigfoot and the debates all pop up. Along with Bigfoot, Old Foghorn is the most important beer in the American barley wine category... and it's classified as "English" on BA. That should be a huge red flag about the real strength of the distinction. The true English beer you mention is JW Lees Harvest Ale. That beer is made with the first harvested hops (hence the name). For me, the hop character in that beer can be huge. I bet people even fail to notice how hoppy Harvest can be partially because of style preconceptions.

Move way past these standard bearers and you get to a beer like Komes barely wine... which sparked this topic. Is it American or English? While this conversation indicates that it might not fit nicely into either, I'm of the mindset that it's a Polish barley wine... and by saying that, I am definitely not suggesting that there should be a box for Polish style barley wine. I am simply putting more emphasis on country of origin and less on something like hop selection/balance.

Anyway, I'm only getting into this out of respect for you asking... so I hope this helps. This is just what works with my POV, and if thinking of Sucaba as English and DFH Olde School as American works for you then keep on using it. This is really a matter of preference. Cheers.

 

No idea.

Maybe the forth was the Baltic porter. That beer had a good reputation on BA. If the price was right, and I haven't had anything from the brewery before, I'd jump on that 4 pack. I've never seen it. Maybe it's a new packaging format. I might have had the raspberry - can't recall. I know I tried the Baltic porter and imperial stout. They weren't my cup of tea... but I'm generally not a fan of porter from that region.

 

@WCKDVBZ - I should add, I tend to put more weight on how a brewer markets a beer than style guides. In that regard, Bigfoot is simply a "barleywine" without further distinction, but Jackie O's makes "English style" barley wines... and that brewer's output reinforces your POV while deflating mine.

 

There's nothing American about this Barleywine. "American flair", that isn't even there! It's a super sweet malty mess of a beer. Just a poorly excecuted English-style Barleywine. Your claim is because American hops were used. But you can't even taste and/or smell them in this beer.

https://untappd.com/b/browar-fortuna-komes-barley-wine/2309436

https://www.tavour.com/post/an-american-english-barleywine-tasting-menu#:~:text=So, the main difference is,style side-by-side

https://legacy.bjcp.org/2008styles/style19.php

Opinion(s) vs. Actual facts

EDIT: And do you actually think that American-made English-style Barlwines always use English hops?

 

The biggest issue is, pretty much every American brewery labels their American and English Barleywines as Barleywines. Including Jackie O's. That definitely doesn't help the situation/argument!