worth posting "bad trader" thread?

In my opinion, no, but he is a large d bag

 

No surprise here and no offense Mike but we disagree once again, actually we do agree on the dbag part . I would out this guy in a heart beat.

1.) He backed out of a trade after it was agreed upon
2.) He backed out of an in person trade an hour prior to meeting (salt in the wound)
3.) His excuse was wanting to maximize his trade value

Yes, a lot of people want to maximize their trade value but to back out of a trade after agreeing upon it and then using that as your reasoning? I don't even know why your debating this. I guess in some people's books the only thing that makes someone a bad trader is if they don't send their end of the deal. If thats the case then they're a THIEF, not a bad trader. IMO someone who agrees upon a trade and doesn't follow through is a bad trader, just my opinion.

Edit: Here OP, not the same but similiar. You can see what some other people think of people backing out of trades.

http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/should-i-post-a-bad-trader-thread.164464/

 

This is a grey area where I could go either way. I wouldn't do it... not worth the trouble, but wouldn't be heartbroken if the guy was outed. I am curious what the beers were.

 

I have to agree 100%. Others will call this a gray area, I call this a BAD TRADER. Some people don't have all the time in the world to be setting up trades and arranging times to meet. It's fine if you have to re-schedule a trade, but to back out because you need to maximize you're trade value! Not cool.

Additionally, since this was an in person trade, you may well have lost a good local contact to share and trade beers with. Maybe the trade wasn't even (although it doesn't matter because a trade was agreed upon), but how do you know the OP wasn't planning on evening the trade with great extras.

This is a bad trader that should be made known to others.

 

Beautiful, thank you for the warning and sorry to hear you got jerked around. I'll be sure to maximize my trade value next time I have a beer he wants

 

Had a very similar experience with another trader recently.

Traded with this person IP once before and all parties were happy. We setup another IP deal where I would be receiving a few growlers and a bottle. The day before we planned to meetup he told me he "couldn't spare" the bottle because he was trading it away for DB huna and cali huna. Gotta maximize your value over honoring your word I guess.

Curious to hear what people think about this variation of OP's situation and if I should take any action.

 

I would consider this person to be a bad trader! No, no one is out any beer, but I think if you set something up you need to follow thru with it. If you don't I would consider you a bad trader.
Two examples:
I recently agreed to a trade involving a BM set and a K13 for a lot of far less rare beers. After agreeing to the trade I started to think "shit, what did I do that for". For two or three days I debated about backing out. I decided that I agreed to the deal and I have to honor that commitment. I shipped the Voodoo beers out today.
Another incident came up. Long story short, wife was super pissed. I had a deal set up, I let the other BA know that I had to back out to keep the wife happy. I offered to send out the beer anyway, but requested nothing be sent in return so that the wife wouldn't see anymore boxes on the doorstep. Other BA did not want me to do that, so I talked to a friend that had the same beers I was going to trade and was interested in the beers I was going to receive and set the two of them up. He ended up with the beers I had agreed to send. I still feel bad that I backed out, but I was determined to see to it that the other BA got what he was looking for.

 

If the trade was sealed, which to me means trade request was submitted and accepted using the BA trading system, and that changes to the trade was WITHIN the control of one of the trade partners that makes the other unhappy because it violates trust, then that makes the person a bad trader. I've said it many times, "loss of beer" cannot be the singular and sole determining factor for being a bad trader.

No one here is unreasonable to expect every trade to go through without unexpected personal hardship or meetup/shipping schedule changes for legitimate reasons, but everyone should expect and be expected that people keep their words to follow through once an agreement is made. Backing out of a trade because of value regret or trying to "maximize" and not get called out for it can only lead to the corrupt of the trade system's integrity.

 

I certainly would. I think it's a total dick move to back out on a trade especially an IP one and especially day/hours before then to give the reason that the bottle(s) was needed for a bigger trade.

Full disclosure, I am not a high volume trader and every one of my trades has been of the IP variety. I never try to win trades. My "goal" in trading is to get the chance to be able to try beers I normally would not have the chance to try.

Being exclusively a IP trader, timing is essential since it revolves around the schedules of parties involved. If I set aside time to travel to make a trade and someone backs out that would really irk me and I would be very hesitant to trade with that person again.

Can't agree more that if you are trying win/maximize your trades over keeping your word, then you are not the type of BA that I would want to have a beer with let alone trade beer with.

 

I wouldn't go as far as to say he's a bad trader, just that he's a bad person. Up to you which is worse, I suppose.

I pre-traded 4 of the 6 Hunahpu's I knew I would get at Hunahpu's Day, thinking it would be easy for me to get up to another case (based on stories from previous years). We all know what happened.

Did I back out of a single one of those trades because I very, very easily could have gotten a lot more for my bottles? No, I honored them. Because that's what non-d-bags do. this guy is a d-bag, thanks for the warning.

 

Thanks for the input guys. I didn't want to add these details initially, but in addition to my concise story: due to his backing out, I amended my first trade feedback for this user from green to yellow. I left the original good feedback text and added some notes on the second failed deal. In retaliation, this user amended his feedback to me to yellow and changed the text to include a four letter word for the female anatomy. I went through site management who sent this user a message, I'm assuming asking him to remove the four letter word. He did, and now the review calls me out as being just AWFUL.

This user is: @NHbeerfishing

 

Wow, now I'm glad he never got back to me! I contacted him twice, once when he first started trading. I didn't have exactly what he wanted, so I didn't expect a response, that was fine. Recently, he posted a bunch of VT stuff FT and ISO of a bunch and Wants. I sent him a message with 4 beers on his Wants. He read it, but didn't have 5 seconds to tell me that he's not interested. Now it all makes sense!

 

This is a big hole in the feedback system ,retaliatory bad feedback. It is great there is a system in place, but there has to be a final judge who can step in and intervene when this happens. In prior life of bad trader list, there was a neutral party who would get the facts from both parties and adjudicate accordingly.

 

While it's not a perfect system, I think it's a little much to have the BA staff having to go through the facts and make a judgment. A lot of time would be needed. Even with, say a 5-judge panel selected by the trading community, there will always be potential/perceived bias. Moreover, some people may not agree that it's not worth trading with some of these bad traders, so stories and threads calling them out is best so that each person can judge for him/herself. People who received retaliatory feedback can add links to these threads into their profile.

 

And this, my friends, is why the BAD TRADER label should be left for thieves only.

Let's be clear. Nobody is saying it's OK to bail on trades for shady reasons, to try to get as MUCH AS YOU CAN for your bottle or can, not bother to show up for IP trades, or generally just act like a butt-wad.

However, once you get into the game of who did what to whom when beer hasn't actually changed hands, it becomes much more subjective. Every one of us has read a thread that deteriorated into bitter name-calling...& lots of us added both of the idiots to our Personal Do Not Trade lists because of it. No?

Bad Traders should be cut-and-dried. The phrase BAD TRADER has been used the same way for years by the community & now a vocal sub-set is trying to change what it means (from THEIF to TOOL). That's only going to (& already has) lead to conflict, deleted threads, & scaring off potential future traders.

 

I would agree with this assessment. This is why on the feedback, I went from green to yellow on this guy, not from green to red. Did he have questionable practices, yes. Bad trader, debatable but probably not.

 

I agree that there is a difference, which is what I was getting at.

Let me put it this way: if you agreed on a trade with somebody & exchanged addresses, then they started acting shady (asking for more for his precious bottle), you have the perfect right to pull out of the trade: right? I would. But what if that person wanted to go back to the original trade? Would you? And if you wouldn't because the trader seemed less than honest, would it be OK for that person to call you out? This is the grey area I'm getting at. Who's in the wrong?

It's just my personal belief that the long-term use of Bad Trader to denote a thief should remain. Use it to identify tools & it begins to lose its meaning.