Averagely Perfect Saison - Poll #1 - Yeast Genera

I like a lot of brett saisons. But in the interest of making an average recipe that everyone can point to that makes a great version, I'll say no. "Plain" saison is still spectacular. Plenty of people here will be making their own tweaks including various brett strains/timings and fruits/spices anyway.

 

I voted yes, that Brett should be considered further. However, I am still open the Brett being ruled out later - mainly because I wouldn't want to exclude a large number of brewers based on the choice of wild yeast alone. I like udubdawg's way of thinking too, although the same philosophy can be used the other way around (as in, if brett is included in the final recipe, each brewer ultimately can decide if he/she wants to use sach only instead). I personally will make a 10 gallon batch no matter the outcome: one clean, one wild.

ETA: Cheers to VikeMan for, again, hosting the most captivating thread on BA!

 

Past group projects like this have been done without funk or lagering because of equipment limitations for some brewers. I think we should keep it that way. At the moment, all my 'extra' income is going to bike parts, and I don't really have the space for a second set of fermentation vessels, canes, hoses, etc. If this is one I sit out, it's not a big deal, but I don't think my limitations are unique, which is why I think Brett should be left out.

 

I recently read a blog post from End of Silence discussing the 2014 BJCP Guidelines and it is of particular relevance to this thread. The entire post is worth a read but it points out the fact that "Saisons with Brett should be entered as American Wild Ales" and how that statement makes zero since. He also points out that Saison Dupont is listed in the BJCP examples and his saison with cultured Dupont yeast currently has a pellicle on it. Historically, brett is part of saisons.

BUT... is this going to be the perfectly average AMERICAN saison? As I see the other examples or IPA and Stout both included 'American' in the title. If this is an American saison, I'd argue no brett since we have have cultured yeast strains and can easily brew a saison without Brett. But if this is a perfectly average saison w/o American in the title, I'd say the use of brett is more typical of the style.

Great discussion thread.

 

Keeping it Clean

To prevent cross-contamination, pay close attention to cleaning and sanitation when using Brettanomyces in your brewery. You may want to dedicate any tubing and soft equipment that contacts Brett to your “wild beers,” but there’s no need to fear Brett if you use some common sense.

From: https://byo.com/aging/item/262-brettanomyces

At most, we're talking about dedicating some tubing and a bucket, maybe an auto-siphon. This is not to say I don't have some reservations brewing with Brett...but I think the fear of contamination is becoming overstated.

 

I favor bottle conditioning with Brett strain(s). On the topic of yeast as well, it should be considered whether to have mixed sacch fermentation as well. 60/40 DuPont/Thiriez or maybe cut in some Westmalle yeast in a 20% by weight to a traditional saison strain. I feel mixed fermentation will give more complexity and "house" character. Saisons can have a tendency to be predictable in terms of either or DuPont or French Thiriez character.

 

All comments bring out good points. Even though I favor Sacch only I voted "yes" to consider Brett. My last two Saisons were split between clean/wild and this is fairly easy to do. I also favor considering multiple Sacch strains as suggested by @hoptualBrew. Yeast is the kingpin for this recipe . . . the twists and turns required to get a special complexity are worth the effort.

For @InVinoVeritas (and others new to the Group Recipe concept): this is the process; dissect the recipe into its component parts, healthy debate, finished off with poll results. The concept is based on Wisdom of Crowds (search wiki), where group results may be superior to the results of the single smartest participant. Sometimes this actually works. Initially there were serious reservations about the first group recipe, BA APA IPA, but it turned out to be a killer. As a minimum your knowledge base for creating recipes will be expanded.

 

In regards to your question about American vs Belgian, take note of the author's 3rd leg of the thesis, that the current trend of Saisons in the Americas are for the most part mixed fermentation.

Thanks for the shout out too, now I don't have to point to my own blog posting...

 

Although I personally may not go down the Brett road, I voted to consider it as I believe this will give the best chance for a killer recipe. Cheers!

 

Like @JohnSnowNW said, there is no reason to fear brett, just do a good job sanitizing. Star-san kills brett just fine.

The previous recipes ended up "American" because we voted for those substyles. Nothing says that this has to be an "American Saison" unless we want it to be. I am not even sure what an American Saison would be vs. Belgian Saison and I definitely don't care what the BJCP says for the purposes of this recipe.

@VikeMan for the follow on polls/posts, can you link back to the preceding poll/post. It was fun reading how we ended up with the final recipes last time. Thanks again for doing this.

 

I'm fine with whichever, but I honestly want some brett in there. I think it's what makes a really good saison, and find that most of the good ones, have brett.

Yeast is the driving force of this beer, so I think it will also be fun to see what we come up with, and perhaps taste others beers to see the differences in pitching and temps.

 

Tough call for me to make. I'm going with "consider Brett" just because I am not ready to rule it out.

 

Because of the variable experiences people seem to have with some saison and brett strains, this could be a good beer for trading event.

 

I love Brett, my wife loves Brett, we gotta have some horse blanket up in this b#$%h! Although we don't use the horse descriptor, we call them "those beers that taste like lickin' a pig".

 

I'm using 'lickin' a pig' as the name for this beer.

 

Say yes, and you can just leave it out of your batch if you want.

 

Hmmm, I suppose that is a possibility?

I typically select other ingredients (e.g., type of hops, hop schedule, etc.) based upon what yeast I select for a given batch of beer. In other words the overall beer recipe will be influenced by which yeast is chosen up front. By simply not using the Brett the overall ‘balance’ of the recipe could be affected?

Cheers!

 

Jack, last January I travelled to Gainesville, FL on a business trip. Not by accident, my hotel was walking distance from Swamp Head Brewery. When I visited, I tried their Saison Du Swamp on draft. As I drank the beer, I spoke with one of the brewery workers, who talked me into taking a bottle of their Brett saison back to my hotel room. I am pretty sure (wish my memory were more reliable) that he told me it was the same saison recipe, but with some brett aging. I don't think they were the same batch, so it is possible there was some minor differences in the ingredients, and the brett had more age, of course. In addition to augmenting the yeast derived flavors, Brett added a few tenths percent to the ABV. My main point: both of these beers were delicious.

 

Peter,

It sounds like you had a excellent Saison drinking experience!

I recently had Boulevard Saison-Brett on draft at a local beer bar. I was not a fan of that beer; the Brett induced flavors were not appealing to me in that particular beer. I have had other beers brewed with Brett where I did enjoy the Brett induced flavors.

There are several aspects to brewing with Brett which will influence the resulting beers.

One aspect is the strain selection. Each Brett strain will create its own unique flavors. The only Brett strain that I have used in my homebrewing is Wyeast Brett B (two batches) and I greatly enjoyed the very noticeable barnyard flavors that this yeast strain provided in those two batches of beer. My wife was not a fan of those beers and referred to those beers as “horse piss”.

How the Brett is used in the brewing process will also influence how the resulting beer will taste. For example, for the bottled versions of the aforementioned Boulevard Saison-Brett the Brett is added during bottling and the bottles are stored at the brewery for 3 months before releasing those bottled beers. I presume that the draft version of Saison-Brett had Brett added as a secondary conditioning process and maybe they practice the same 3 month aging before kegging the beer?

In my homebrewing with Wyeast Brett B I added the Brett in the primary fermenter along with a Belgian Trappist ale yeast strain.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the recipe selection process for the Averagely Perfect Saison beer:

· Only use a Saison yeast strain or use some Brett as well

· Which Brett strain to select (presuming that using some Brett is the decision)

· How the Brett yeast strain is used (presuming that using some Brett is the decision): added to the primary, added during bottling, etc.

· Etc.

Cheers!

Jack