Green Flash Cellar 3 Series - "Silva Stout"

The flavor is caused by diacetyl - it is a specific flaw in beer (fermentation/yeast caused I think) and isn't actually butterscotch flavor

It is the same chemical they use for fake butter flavor on popcorn, so can be pretty awful in beer

The big issue is that a tiny hint can be nice, but it is impossible to control, so it can get stronger and stronger over time and ruin a beer

Some people can't detect the flavor (or don't mind it) but it is a well known flaw that def. Shouldn't be there in an imperial stout!

 

Gotcha! I wonder if I can't detect it or I've just never had a beer with it. I can definity taste fake butter on popcorn.

 

Opened one last weekend, was the most yogurt tasting beer I've ever had. So much so, that I'm not taking the other one I bought back - I am going to see how it tastes with granola. It's that yogurty.

 

I'm sorry, you're wrong here. As a consumer, if I'm dissatisfied with the product, any product, my first point of contact for grievance will be a merchant who sold it to me. And there is nothing dishonorable or business-wrecking here. They sold it to me, they carry the responsibility if they stand by their business.
And they in turn, if they want to bother with one bottle or the entire shipment, will take it to their distributor, who should credit them for the "bad" product. Distributor, in turn, depending on many variables I suppose, can express their grievances to the importer or producer, whoever is next up the chain.
But again, I, as a consumer, should not carry a burden of taking a loss on a bad product, whether it's a $10 product or $200.

 

Didn't see any draft comments but I had this Friday on draft and it was a butterscotch butanedione bomb. Happened to be at a quality bar so I was able to switch it out.

 

I'm not sure where I stand on this, but intermittent emails don't seem to work. Maybe the shit rolling uphill on a matter like this is what will get someone to take notice. Just a thought.

 

WRONG!

 

I got a bad bottle. I contacted their rep on FB and he's sending me another. So positive response from GF here.

 

I read a suggestion from a forum on here to learn the flavor. Buy some of the butter flavoring stuff for popcorn and some cheap neutral beer like Coors light. Pour 2 glasses of beer and keep adding drops of the butter flavor to one glass and compare them until you can tell

Never done it, but makes sense. They sell kits to do it with a tin of different off flavors but they are expensive, so something more for a class or a big tasting group

 

I have a bottle of this in my cellar that I picked up on a completely random beer stop, now I'm worried I just dropped $20 down the drain. Guess you don't know till you pop the bottle.

 

before we get off on the wrong foot, let's choose our words a little bit better. nobody is 'WRONG' here. we disagree but this isn't a standardized test.

my biggest problem with what you guys are saying is i personally don't do much shopping in "bottle shops" or big stores like Binny's or TW, save for somewhat regular visits for minor pick-ups @ Whole Foods. and i guess my perspective is quite a bit different as a result, i owe a great deal to the stores that i do most of my dealings with. mainly because the corner markets actually are willing to bring in product i request & often @ significant "case" discounts - i'm not gonna ram this kinda shit up their ass & make it their problem to deal with when it clearly isn't their fault. plus risk ruining my good thing??? having family obligations takes up a great deal of my time. i don't stand in lines. i don't race behind releases or trucks. either i get shit at my leisure or i don't. based on this type of relationship i managed to purchase another 4pk of BCBSC last week, for example.

a cautionary tale i will offer is a few years back there were some significant HotD issues (what else is new) but it looked like a great percentage of the issue was in my local distro. i'm wondering how many locals around here notice after the big push back, subsequent batches of Adam are sparsely if ever seen in San Francisco in it seems like almost 2 years now? luckily i went long on some beforehand but still. it's either a helluva a coincidence OR the concerted effort was enough for the Distro to discontinue re-stocking the product; or the brewer to no longer be willing to ship the product to the distributor. do you ever wonder if something like what you guys are suggesting could ever contribute in any shape or form to those constant: how come i don't see as much _________ in my area anymore?

& don't get me wrong. i've gotten a few cases here & there i raised an eyebrow over & i did discuss it with the store owners & in some cases the distro sales representatives. in a couple of rare cases i actually had extended communication with head brewers/company owners. mainly on the stores' end i let them know there's likely a sub-par batch in the current pipeline so they are aware - particularly if it's common product they're likely to carry / be interested in stocking.

bottom line at the end of my quoted post, i preempted with: "Not here to start a revolution". if you don't care that's cool, as also was stated & quoted.

 

ok professor. you're right.

 

Totally valid perspective - and if I shopped more at little mom and pop stores I would agree.

I guess around me at least, the difference is that the mom and pops don't ever get a look in at these sort of releases - the distributors allocate specials based on volume of regular year round beers from the same brewer, so only the big volume chains can reliably get the special releases. As a result, I don't feel bad returning sub-par / infected / major flawed beers. The big boys have control over the craft beer market, and as a customer, I get fantastic service in return to keep me loyal.

 

That is good of them - I hope they make it right for everyone and that the replacement bottle is awesome!

I wonder if they will recall the beer if there are more reports of bad bottles - seems a somewhat frequent issue in the latest batch based on the reviews.

If a batch is flawed or has issues the brewer has 2 options in my mind:
- Flawed beer, brewer notices before shipping = don't ship, dump it and eat the cost
- Flawed beer discovered after shipping = recall, make all the right apologies and refund all customers

If you can't fix your process, stop making the beer. It is tantamount to defrauding the consumer to knowingly release a flawed beer, or leave a flawed beer on the market without a recall - I don't put up with it from any other producer of goods that I buy, and beer is no different to me. There is too much good beer, and too many amazing stand up brewers to put up with breweries who release flawed or infected beer. I understand these things can happen, but it is all about what you do next - you either make it right (in which case awesome, love you even more) or you don't - in which case I am done with you.

Sounds like Green Flash is doing the right thing - hopefully they can fix their process and make sure it isn't a widespread issue

 

That's why I'm opening mine tonight with a friend to see what happens. I've tasted beers before and said "This is delicious!" only to have a homebrewer friend or friend with a refined palate tell me "There's diacetyl in this." Now, if that's literally the only flavor with zero complexity I will certainly be disappointed. But at least I know I should be able to drink the whole thing since diacetyl apparently doesn't bother me.

 

Not looking to get a refund (out of laziness, honestly) but on the plus side I get to share my remaining bottle with friends to familiarize them with one of the possible off flavors that can develop in beers. Disappointed that they would let this much bad beer be distributed but at least it can be turned into a learning experience.

 

Just poured a few glasses and tasted this (batch 1). Upon opening, I feared the worst; after giving it a chance I don't think there's any issue.

There might be some diacetyl, but not a 'D-bomb' as some of the hyperbolic posts insinuate/indicate—it's barely perceptible, and I'm only thinking of it because of the internet partisans. There are buttery notes, but they strike me more as strong oakiness, like an over-oaked Chardonnay. The initial flavour was a bit vinous, but it doesn't seem to be an off-note or infection. The butter recedes after just a minute in the glass, and a strong Bourbon (vanilla, honey, caramel) profile follows.

This is only one data point, and—disclosure—I had been hoping not to find it flawed, as I picked up a few bottles (saw a discount and jumped on it) before reading any of the big D reports.

 

I thought it was established that batch 2 that has been bad and batch 1 has been ok....

 

Apparently not:

http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/2743/165513/

16th review down. The one with the 2.66 score.

 

Drinking mine right now. Huge butterscotch in the aroma. The flavor, however, isn't as cloying as I would expect. I get some barrel notes but I also get that yogurt-like taste out of it too. After a while, I definitely detect some artificial butter characteristic in the aftertaste. For the record, I like sweet stuff, so this is decently enjoyable for me. However, it's not even close to the quality I would expect from a beer at this price. I could also see how people who don't want their BA stouts to be super sweet would be disappointed. I know nothing about how diacetyl occurs in beer but I wonder if maybe the long duration of 18 months spent in the barrel had something to do with it. If only there were a voice from Green Flash who could make a comment on this forum as to what could be going on with this beer...