Averagely Perfect ESB - Poll #4 - Grains/Fermentables

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by VikeMan, Mar 8, 2017.

?

Select ONE OR MORE Grains/Fermentables

Poll closed Mar 10, 2017.

  1. Generic Two Row or Pale Ale Malt or Pilsner

    48 vote(s)
    92.3%

  2. Wheat Malt and/or Flaked Wheat

    6 vote(s)
    11.5%

  3. Munich and/or Vienna Malt(s)

    15 vote(s)
    28.8%

  4. Amber and/or Brown Malt(s)

    14 vote(s)
    26.9%

  5. Carapils and/or Other Crystal Malt(s)

    43 vote(s)
    82.7%

  6. Flaked Rye and/or Flaked Oats

    3 vote(s)
    5.8%

  7. Chocolate and/or Dark Roasted Malt(s) and/or Roasted Barley

    7 vote(s)
    13.5%

  8. Flaked Corn

    2 vote(s)
    3.8%

  9. Honey Malt

    2 vote(s)
    3.8%

  10. Sugar, Sugar Products, and/or Honey

    16 vote(s)
    30.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    -> Poll #3 <- determined that the Final Gravity target will be 1.012.

    Now we'll start selecting the grains/fermentables. Pour yourself a beer...this will take a while.

    You can select more than one choice. The #1 overall choice will be automatically in. Beyond that, any other choices that get votes from at least 30% of respondents will advance to future poll(s) to determine exact combinations in/out. If less than 3 (beyond the top pick) get votes from at least 30% of respondents, three will advance to the combinations poll. There will also be polls (where necessary) to select specific varieties of the grains/fermentables that advance to the combinations poll. Want something that's not listed? Write it in.

    I recommend you think about this in terms of not only your personal preferences, but also in the context of the ABV and Final Gravity (and thus the attenuation) already selected, as well as any possible yeast strain selection that might be kicking around in your head.

    This poll will be open for 48 hours.

    If you have issues with or suggestions for methodologies used in this project, please send them via beermail. Let's keep the threads themselves on topic to the question at hand and not about how you would have asked the question differently.

    The Averagely Perfect ESB Recipe so far...

    Target ABV: 5.4%
    OG: 1.053
    FG: 1.012 (77.4% Apparent Attenuation)
    Grain Bill: TBD (this and subsequent polls)
     
    #1 VikeMan, Mar 8, 2017
  2. crcostel

    crcostel Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2006 Illinois

    Classic esb - maris and a little crystal
     
    #2 crcostel, Mar 8, 2017
    corbmoster, FeDUBBELFIST, JackHorzempa and 3 others like this.
  3. Soneast

    Soneast Pooh-Bah (1,751) May 9, 2008 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    My thoughts exactly.
     
    #3 Soneast, Mar 8, 2017
  4. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Plus some English-style invert sugar.
     
    #4 pweis909, Mar 8, 2017
    secondbase and minderbender like this.
  5. minderbender

    minderbender Initiate (0) Jan 18, 2009 New York

    Yes, if you scroll through @patto1ro's blog, you'll be hard pressed to find a recipe for a bitter that doesn't include sugar. (Seriously, if you find one, let me know.) The one downside that I would mention is that the British brewers seem to have used like a million different kinds of sugar, many of them proprietary, and few of them readily available. But you can make your own invert sugar without too much difficulty, and for anyone seeking to brew traditional British beers that is a pretty important skill to acquire.

    Flaked maize was also very commonly used. The use of crystal malt seems to have been rare in the early part of the 20th century but increasingly common as the century wore on, so if you want to design a traditional recipe, it depends on what era you are aiming for.

    Malt extract was also quite common, but in low amounts that I don't think we would get any benefit from in terms of recipe design.
     
    #5 minderbender, Mar 8, 2017
    pweis909 likes this.
  6. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Thought about also voting for corn, but figured if I could only push one cause, it would be the sugars.
     
    #6 pweis909, Mar 8, 2017
    wspscott and minderbender like this.
  7. crcostel

    crcostel Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2006 Illinois

    I doubt its traditional or what you have in mind but I wouldn't mind having leftover golden syrup.:slight_smile:
     
    #7 crcostel, Mar 8, 2017
    pweis909 likes this.
  8. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    I'm going to suggest that the people voting for Vienna or Munich malts should be thinking of getting big malt flavors from Golden Promise or Maris Otter malts instead. If I was going to do an ESB with American 2-row, then I would likely throw in some Munich, but with a good English malt, I don't think it is necessary.

    @VikeMan are we going to vote on specific malt producers, i.e. Simpsons vs. Bairds vs. ...? I'm not sure I have enough info to decide between those, but might be interesting.

    Thanks for doing this again :slight_smile:
     
    #8 wspscott, Mar 8, 2017
    scottakelly, Soneast, pweis909 and 1 other person like this.
  9. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    To clarify... assuming Generic Two Row or Pale Ale Malt or Pilsner gets in, there will be a poll to determine the specific type(s). The poll would include various North American and English types, but would not be maltster specific (unless someone were to convince me via beermail that there are maltster differences within one type that are significant enough to warrant it). So far, we have not gone as far as specifying maltsters in these projects, and I'm inclined to keep it that way.
     
    #9 VikeMan, Mar 8, 2017
    wspscott and inchrisin like this.
  10. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (2,084) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
    Pooh-Bah

    Currently fullers ESB is all malt. It used to contain both flaked maize and sugar.
     
    #10 patto1ro, Mar 8, 2017
    SFACRKnight, machalel, JackHorzempa and 2 others like this.
  11. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Also added dark malt. I like a bit of red in these beers. Crystal and sugar can help but a little roasted sumpin or other would do the heavy lifting, in this regard. It doesn't look like it'll have the votes but wanted to make the case.
     
    #11 pweis909, Mar 8, 2017
  12. scurvy311

    scurvy311 Savant (1,135) Dec 3, 2005 Louisiana

    I'm def voting for pale malt in this poll, but assuming it moves on, I'd like to use this Marris otter in particular. Unless someone who has used it has a compelling reason to not. I have an ESB on the roster for the fall. After listening to a BN podcast (unsure which Brewing with Style show it was), JZ mentioned Heretic uses https://bsgcraftbrewing.com/no19-maris-otter-25kg

    "The quintessential and most traditional ale brewing malt. Crisp No. 19 Floor-Malted Maris Otter® (formerly Gleneagles Maris Otter®) is an English ale malt made from the famous Maris Otter® barley variety and malted in a traditional floor-malting facility."

    It's available online for sure, but I'm not sure about LHBSs. I'm positive mine doesn't.
     
    #12 scurvy311, Mar 8, 2017
  13. crcostel

    crcostel Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2006 Illinois

    Mine doesn't either. I can get Maris, Golden Promise and Pearl.

    Is the philosophy to make the average-best ESB that we all can reasonably obtain the same ingredients for?
     
    #13 crcostel, Mar 8, 2017
  14. Supergenious

    Supergenious Maven (1,273) May 9, 2011 Michigan

    I'm a big fan of amber malt, and it goes pretty good with the style. Doesn't look like it's going to get the votes. I think it's worth the consideration though.
     
    #14 Supergenious, Mar 8, 2017
  15. Soneast

    Soneast Pooh-Bah (1,751) May 9, 2008 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Good call. Adjusted my vote to include sugar, which I'd much rather see in the final product than munich or vienna malt.
     
    #15 Soneast, Mar 8, 2017
    minderbender and crcostel like this.
  16. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Maven (1,374) May 2, 2006 Utah

    Munich and Vienna? Where exactly in the UK are these cities? Pretty sure these malts have very little to do with British Isles or Ales. For my dollar (sorry, pound) amber malt is a more authentic character malt for this type of beer.
     
    #16 utahbeerdude, Mar 8, 2017
    crcostel and Soneast like this.
  17. Brewday

    Brewday Zealot (721) Dec 25, 2015 New York

    My 3 cents.Something like 2row,biscuit malt,oat malt,carapils,crystal 40/50/60.
     
    #17 Brewday, Mar 8, 2017
    crcostel likes this.
  18. Curmudgeon

    Curmudgeon Savant (1,110) May 29, 2014 Massachusetts
    BA4LYFE Society

    Going to expose my ignorance - What does the (invert?) sugar addition do for this style? My guess is to dry it out a bit to give the beer some gentle crispness. Or is it for sweetness?
     
    #18 Curmudgeon, Mar 8, 2017
  19. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Last evening I ordered ingredients for an upcoming Bitter Ale. Among the ingredients:
    • Maris Otter
    • Simpsons Crystal Malt
    Cheers!
     
    #19 JackHorzempa, Mar 8, 2017
  20. Soneast

    Soneast Pooh-Bah (1,751) May 9, 2008 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    I think they are the new Crystal, now that crystal has fallen out of favor to some extent. People want to put munich and vienna in everything, lol.
     
    #20 Soneast, Mar 8, 2017
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