Trimming beer lines in keezer

wise move!

Trial and error. What if you don't like the result at 6 ft? You'd need to buy more line. OTOH, if you don't like 9, you can try 8, then 7, until you get it the way you like it.

If you understood how it works, you wouldn't have asked that question. Use the pressure that the charts/calculators tell you to use.

Patience!

 

Yeah! What he said. All good advice above, especially the part about patience. It will not work perfectly on day 1 but you will get it. If you change anything as you go like line length or pressure, change only 1 variable at a time and understand that changes don't take effect instantly. Give it a few days.
Before you walk away from it the first day check EVERYTHING with soapy bubbles to check for CO2 leaks.

 

Remember, the length of the line has no effect what so ever on the vols in your beer. Line length only provides restriction. That's it. The more restriction the slower the pour. It is typically easier to manage a slower pour than it is to try and tame a fire hose so erring on longer is better. Unless you are a busy bar and need to sling 8 second pints. Balance refers to Temp, Resistance and Pressure.

So, for a balanced system, set your temp to 38F. Make sure you are getting 38F liquid. The line above the freezer, the small part in the collar above the freezer, that's going to foam a tiny bit because it wont be 38 but close enough.

Then choose your desired vols at 38F and set the regulator appropriately.

Each foot of 3/16" beer line (choker) provides 2.2 psi of restriction. Each foot of rise from the keg is another 0.5 psi but we can safely ignore that.

There you go.
Another tip here.
Dip the end of the tube in hot water and it will slip onto the hose barb easy. Live with the length for a day or so before you decide to shorten the line. You will quickly learn to get a good pour.

Cheers

 

This... squared

 

Consider the range of styles you brew before you cut you draft lines. Do you brew English styles that have lower carbonation? Belgian styles that are highly carbonated? Or do you mainly brew beers that fall squarely into 2.5 vols of CO2? I have 10 foot lines and they work well for low and moderately carbonated beers and are serviceable with highly carbonated beers (>3.0 vols). I think 10 feet is a nice compromise length and the extra few seconds to pour a pint is negligible.

 

Here are two detailed posts from Home Bar Forum that amplify on your concerns:
https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/foaming.193492/
https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/help-with-balancing-my-system.248243/

If you have complete understanding and do everything perfectly, expect about a week for your system to be balanced.

 

Yes, line length only controls the rate of flow. It would be something if the length of the line could change the temp or vols but of course that is not happening. And since those three things are all you have to work with, nothing more, you want to get each one pretty close to perfect for your set up. The length of the line provides restriction and the longer the line the more restriction. Quick analogy.

The spigot on the side of your house blasts water when fully opened. Same spigot now with 100' of garden hose attached. Much less velocity. Same spigot but more restriction.

If the system has too much restriction the pour wont be right, it will surge and never get settled. Too short and you will wish for bottles. We all like to see a nice steady flow from the faucet (called the "rope"... impress your friends with that) and that is the result of faucet design and system restriction. 10' of line won't cause surging and is perfectly acceptable.

I also want to point out that you really don't need to stress too much over this part of your system. When we install a system, the bar gets exactly ONE FIXED resistance for all of their lines. It's not like they change the choker every time a new style goes on the line. Temps and pressure? Sure knock yourself out. But the system restriction is mostly fixed in every bar you have ever been too.
Cheers.

 

I brew similarly . . . I have 8 foot'ers on my 2.5v beers and 12 foot'ers on my 3.0v. A commercial bar rarely has this flexibility, but a home bar can easily switch out a beer line just like swapping a keg. I usually keep two faucets with longer lines hooked up to my Belgium brews.

Don't be stingy with spare parts. If you think you'll need 30' of beer line order at least 50' . . . you'll use it and it's mighty nice to have some extra. Many homebrew stores sell a five piece o-ring kit for about 4 bucks. You can buy these same o-rings in bulk for about 2¢ each.

 

Nonsense.
Regulators are routinely kept in the cold environment. All walk in coolers. All kegerators. It is not a problem. They are made to work in a refrigerator.

Regulators do have a bad habit of failing for no good reason but condensation is not one of them.

You should also realize if you use high pressure to speed up the carbonation there is a good chance you blow right by your target vols. Consider restraint for now until you get a feel for the force carbonation process. That;s just my opinion.

Cheers.

 

What kind of line/tubing is it, ie. brand name & type. This is pretty important for getting the length right. Every different manufacture and type of hose requires a different length. There is no one size fits all formula.

We carry Bevlex Series 200 at 3/16 ID they tubing gives you 2.2 psi of resistance per foot. So five feet is just shy of what you need.

I also have the info for Bev-Seal Untra Series 235 3/16 ID is 2.0 psi per foot. I only have these two handy, but the information should be on the manufactures website.

Keep in mind you need to add or subtract 1/2 psi for every foot of vertical lift or drop in the line.

 

Co2 does not have any moisture in it. moisture in thew co2 would damage not only the regulator but also the tank.

 

Mold will grow @ ~ 40*F...my lager keggerator is living proof...regulator and everything else inside will sprout mold until wiped down periodically.

Never had any other problems with keeping the CO2 inside on the compressor bump.

 

Palmer is a great source and really knowledgeable in his realm, but I am afraid he is out of his depth here. I am saying this with careful thought because his work is truly legend and deservedly so.

A regulator is a mechanical device that is really rather simple. The device accepts 800 psi give or take on one side and passes it through a diagram and spring mechanism. The output is determined by the compression of the diagram and spring. Apply more pressure to the diagram and the output pressure is decreased. So you have a rubber gasket with a spring. There is a difference if you buy a "pro" regulator, the design is a little bit more elaborate and the parts are a little bit higher quality (but not always!). Still, it is a really simple mechanical device doing a herculean task.

And God as my witness, regulators are not damaged by condensation. If that were the case you can be certain there would be regulators designed for installation in a cold room and regulators that are not specified for a cold room. This is not a distinction you will find anywhere. And you will not see any warranty that speaks of condensation damage.

Cheers.

 

Bev Seal Ultra is NOT choker. Choker is vinyl. Can't stress this enough. Do not sub barrier tube for choker. Ultra is great tube but it is not designed to be choker and should not be used as choker. The poly Ultra series is a real PITA in a kegerator set up and you are really doing your customers a dis-service if you are selling Ultra for a kegerator application. It is hard to work with, more expensive, it will kink, it is by design NOT choker because it is too slick. It is a bad idea all around. Further, it does not fit barbs in the same manner as vinyl. The ID may be the same but they are not interchangeable. Ultra barrier is meant for remote draw systems. Period. And nobody here (and presumably at your shop) has anything but a direct draw box.

As for adding 0.45 psi restriction (technical I know), it is actually 0.45 per foot above the level of the beer. Which varies by about 2 feet per keg. So let's see, should we compensate for a full keg or consider adding 1 psi for the keg when it is near empty? Rule of thumb is add 1 psi resistance for all of the crap-ola (technical term) from keg to glass. Faucet, coupler, elevation. Simple.

Truth is, nobody needs to be this exact. Nobody. Making something simple a cluster really.

Cheers.

 

It's good to hear that "How To Brew" is expanding beyond its original scope. But if Palmer said this, I'd question if the statement was based on evidence. I've never seen any.

Just for kicks, google "CO2 regulator condensation damage" and look at the images.