New BA Score, Histograms & More Updates (Part Two)

I like this much better.

 

I love the histogram. Thanks for listening. And for the %BA liked going away.

However, I still found the __/100 more useful than a straight BA score, which doesnt seem to account for review #s. When looking at ranking lists, there is some weighted numbers and rankings involved. But a straight shot BA score is kind of taking it too far back in time.

What I mean by that is, on the rankings page, a 4.4 low reviewed IPA may come in at 99 out of 100. Meanwhile a IPA with 10 times the amount of ratings at say 4.23 is ranked higher. The Beer Ranking # on the beer page does account for this in some way. But what exactly does Beer rank #850 mean in comparison to #1,100.

I know there's a top 100 beer list by style. But I would love to see the Beer ranking expanded a bit on the beer profile page. What does #800 mean? Is it out of 801 beers? Or 10,000? And is it an overall beer rank, or one by style? It would be awesome to see what some of these beers rank.

For the beers beyond the top 100, a 4.20 rated IPA with 10 ratings may be perceived the same as a 4.20 rated IPA with 250 ratings. Yet with the old system, the 250 ratings IPA would be 1-2 points higher (out of the 30-100 scale). I loved the weight you guys added to ratings #s for the overall score. I guess I just never really saw any flaws in that.

Basically I loved the old system, if we could just get a histogram in place.

 

Looks good, guys. Thanks for putting in the hard work!

Jeff

 

I love this!

Never understood the need to convert a 4.5 rating into a 95 (or whatever the equivalent rating would be).

The histograms are cool too!

 

This is great. I always tended to just look at the average score and number of ratings anyway, so this is perfect for me.

 

I liked the 4.5 into 95 type conversion because they did the leg work for us (they still do for the beer rankings list. But for those beyond the top 100 or 250, its a touch trickier). I think it quickly tried to show you a beers total piece of work. But it also had flaws with lower rated beer styles.


One example.

4.34 beer with 1333 ratings. It converted into a 96 beer. Your 4.37 beer with just 300 ratings converted to a 94. And a 4.32 beer with 1500 ratings would also convert to a 94.
One could argue that with the new system the lower # of ratings 94 beer is now perceived as the better example if one only looks at the ba score (4.37 vs 4.32), which most tend to do.

They do list the total # below the ba score so we can judge it ourselves now. But I definitely liked how they placed both of the 94 beers on equal footing because of the # of ratings on one vs. the other. That was the greatest attribute of the 4.5 into 95 conversion that they used to do for us.

The top 100 list is cool to see. One that stands out is #99 out of 100 for IPAs. 4.41 with just 91 ratings. It's sitting among the 4.23 to 4.30 beers because of its low rating total. But other than that top list, its hard to compare what a 4.41 means in the scheme of things. Thats when the beer ranking list has some play. But the # out of # needs to be there imho.

I will say that for some styles, a top rated product may only be a 91 or 92 so there could have been some confusion. I remember some arguing that each beer style should be graded on its own scale aka a top rated 92 should be perceived as a 100.

But now it's up to us to decide what we do with the numbers. I can live with that.

Btw seeing the place histograms really brings it all into perspective. I love this new addition.

Sorry for the ramble. I do appreciate the efforts to improve.

 

I appreciate the examples you gave to express your opinion. I'm just not that much of a stickler for the exact numbers I guess.

 

Thanks for the updates! I love logging in and finding new toys to play with, especially the larger font, 1-5 based BA score and histogram. It's so much more info and still keeps a beer profile clean looking.

For features down the road, I would suggest being able to choose which view someone sees by default for a brewer's lineup (I prefer the list to table myself), and maybe a toggle on the histogram that shows the avg score per month since a beer was added to the site. I'd be curious to see how people's perception of a beer changes (or not) over time.

Cheers!

 

@Todd and I have plans to provide some stats "over time." I cannot speculate on when it will be available. It is something we are working on though.

 

Great update and thanks for listening to the feedback. I wasn't feeling the % liked but always appreciate the attempt to keep things new and fresh. The histograms are an awesome visual feature and I suspect they will only improve over time. I still liked the Average, World Class, etc. designations but can understand why they're gone. Love this update overall though.

 

I miss the old system already.

 

Personally I like the score out of 100 the best still.
Much easier to look at a beer and instantaneous tell how good the beer is based on everyones ranking. I'd still keep the fraction out of 5, but whole numbers are just easier.

With that being said, what does a 4.79 beer equate to out of 100? Just double it right. Ok, so how long will it take the average person to quickly do this simple math. 4 seconds? 6 seconds? Longer? Just to find out that the beer is 95.8%. Keeping the 4.79/5 rating is perfectly fine. But why not add back in the number out of 100 for split second knowledge.

Removing the numbers out of 100 with the titles so people could give it their own ranking wasn't handled properly in my opinion. If everyone rates a beer world class with a 98, I still have my judgment to say that beer is only outstanding with a rating of 91. Or just average at 78. Having the titles to influence peoples decision is the same with showing a beer is 4.79/5. If they rank it 4.2, they still see that everyone else ranked higher than them.

I would also strongly be in favor of adding the titles again.
Possibly create a poll on how the community wants this to be such as...

100-97 World Class
96-93 Superior
93-90 Premier
89-85 Outstanding
84-80 Very Good
79-75 Average
and so on.

Its just easier to look up a beer and see its a 94 rather than a 4.7/5.

Just like everyone else, I love the histogram. But please consider adding back the ranking out of 100 with the titles. I don't think they alter peoples judgment when they rank beers as most people here have strong opinions.

 

My hat goes off to you for your fine work! This is cutting edge, dude! Keep on keeping on!

 

Regardless of the original intent, it became a useful point of reference for folks used to seeing professional wine ratings that were almost universally up to 100. Those ratings started with giving every wine 50 points simply for existing, leading to complications for a scale up to 100 that starts very differently...

That's not how the site's old scores out of 100 were ever calculated. For multiple reasons, the old scores resulted in a significant number of beers rated in the high 90s (or 100). With the simpler conversion you demonstrated, that would practically never be the case for any beer with a significant number of ratings.

With your 4.79 example, only the top 2 on the BA list of top rated beers have that average or higher. So the #2 ranked beer on the site would yield a rating under 96. What's the point of the scale going up to 100 if the highest points never get used? More importantly, a beverage that would clearly deserve a 100 in the scale drinkers are more exposed to (wine) would "only" be in the mid-90s. Casual browsers both of this site and of shelf talkers would tend to wrongly assume the 4.79/95.8 beer is rated outstanding but not among the true best.

It's appropriate to either 1) have the current system that displays no score out of 100 or 2) use something like the old algorithm that made full use of all 100 points.

 

Honestly, this not only the best system I've seen on BA, but the best I've seen online, period.

No manipulation of the data, no attempts to skew the data, no attempts influence the ratings, no attempts to interpret the data for us, just the raw data. Which in my opinion, speaks for itself. This system allows me to see easily see where I stand verses my fellow BA's, as well as, understand where BA's are on a beer I haven't tried. This system is clear and unambiguous.

This is the type of innovation that has kept many of us loyal to this site for decades.

Side note: The histogram is great.

"Well done" to the BA team that made this happen.

 

The histogram is a welcome addition. I am especially fond of the fact that mousing over a bar will give specific "count" data for the score.

 

I'm sorry I could have been more clear with my example. I am aware the old number wasn't calculated that easy but now that each beer is out of 5, why not just double it and make it out of 100.

Basically when I look at a beer now, I see 4.79/5 on the beers page. I read that beer as being an 95.8 out of 100. I didn't mean to say thats how the old way was calculated but if beers are only going to be x/5, it just makes sense to me to have it read 95.8 as well as 4.79/5.

Then the community may be able to give input on the titles of world class etc.

Again, this is just my opinion. I prefer to see a beer out of 100 in any way BA thinks best. As of now, KBBS is 4.83/5 = 96.6%. Maybe take this rating and have it be the start of grades on a curve. Anything over lets say 94% will get a 100 and so on.