Tröegs Nugget Nectar 2019

I actually think it's getting off relatively easily compared to the usual nagging on endlessly about the old classics.

Hopslam gets destroyed year after year. KBS is a relatively recent target, but it did start getting attacked unnecessarily before CBS did.

I'm shocked that Bourbon County escapes unscathed, but it seems to be a sacred cow for some reason.

 

Well, I've never had a bad batch of NN, so I can't comment on that. I've enjoyed it every year since it was first realeased. To me it's a classic and I look forward to it every winter. BTW, I'm pretty sure Oneraindog is the VP of operations at Troegs.

 

The batch to batch variation to me sounds like it oxygen related more than anything else. The malt bombs with little hop aroma definitely sound like excessive package oxygen which amazes me considering the size of their brewery. It being a heavily hopped beer it won’t last too much past 90 days regardless of how good their packaging processes are.

 

I've had three pours of it this year, all on tap at the source on different dates. I'm not here to get in to chapter book length debates on if the beer changed, I changed, or if it is a 62.4% to 37.6% split in either direction, but I didn't care for it nearly as much as I did last year. I believe them if they say the recipe doesn't change. I think information is often times wrong coming from Troegs through the chain to their customers, but I never considered that they would intentionally lie about it.

One quick point before we reach the chapter break of a post promised to be brief, but if they're saying the recipe doesn't change, does that factor in things like different hop crops varying from year to year? Is that the middle ground where we all are right to some degree or another?

 

Hops will indeed vary based upon hop crop year but other factors as well: which hop farm and specific location on the farm were they grown, when were the hops harvested (e.g., an early harvest vs. a late harvest), how quickly were the hops processed after harvesting, how were the hops stored post processing,…

It is possible to produce consistent beer with varying products; that is where the skill of the brewer comes into play.

There is a great discussion on pages 239 – 240 of the book For the Love of Hops by Stan Hieronymus where the headbrewer of Bear Republic (Richard Norgrove) mentions how he makes a consistent beer of Racer 5 IPA given that hops vary with the location they are grown, the particular year’s crop, and other variables. His last quote is revealing: “So, how do I make Racer taste the same when hops change? That’s what makes it craft.”

Cheers!

 

When fresh, Racer 5 is still an outstanding beer.

 

No doubt on all of this. Just was taking all that we "know" about Nugget Nectar and considering if I wasn't taking anything into account that might explain the vastly different opinions across the years/batches. Couple that with the information from someone who might well know that there are no recipe variations, and that's all I could muster.

 

There could be a number of 'variables' at play here. I am presuming that you read post #43 above where there was a discussion about packaged oxygen. A metric that is commonly used in the brewing industry is TPO (Total Packaged Oxygen). It is optimum for this value to be as low as possible (e.g., 20 ppb) since oxygen is the enemy of beer. For a hoppy beer a high TPO value will manifest via hop fade (i.e., decreased hop aroma) over a relatively short period of time. For a commercial brewery achieving a repeatable TPO value is necessary.

Perhaps it will be useful to come back to: what exactly does the word "recipe" mean? For those who cook a recipe is both a list of ingredients but also a detailed step by step process for how the dish is prepared. Yesterday I made Jambalaya and that recipe had a very detailed and encompassing series of steps - it took over 2.5 hours to make that dish. A brewing recipe is also a list of ingredients but also a bunch of process steps over a period of days. In addition when it comes to packaged beer (cans, bottles and kegs) there are other process steps in play beyond what most folks would associate with the word "recipe". So, there is a number of process steps occurring which can (and will) impact the quality of the finished beer. Which of those steps from specific ingredient sourcing to putting the beer in the package is impactful here for the case of Nugget Nectar?

Cheers!

 

I haven't had Nugget Nectar in years, not since it was one of the most sought after hoppy beers in America. I might have to try a bottle this year, for nostalgia sake.

 

Used to seek this out every year. Skipped last year and now I'm kind of regretting it. Hope to get my hands on a fresh pour this year. Bring back the single bottle format!

 

I picked up a crowler of fresh Nugget Nectar at the brewery over the weekend. I thought the nose on it was like taking a hand full of whole leaf hops and rubbing them between your hands. The big amber “Troegs” backbone was there (which is always my least favorite part of this beer), but in my opinion it was evenly balanced out with the taste of fresh resiny hops that if you closed your eyes, tasted just picked from the field.

On a side note, Troegs’ affinity for the amber (Vienna/Munich malts) beer profile, even in their scratch beers when they could do anything, is always such a head scratcher to me. To me, I just get this huge sweetness that makes it hard for the hops to shine through unless it’s the most bitter simcoe/warrior kind. I really wish they would switch to a lighter, flakey beer for some of their pale ales to showcase their (obviously) mastered techniques for hop additions during the brewing and fermenting process.

It’s easy to lose sight of how innovative NN and it’s sibling Hopback was when it came out. But it’s that reason that I buy some every year and am rarely disappointed.

 

Yep, I am familiar with the process of packaging beer and the role it plays in the perception of said beer, along with the numerous other variables involved.

Against my better judgment, though...

...if the hop crop varies from year to year, producer, region, etc.... and the recipe is the same (from all we know) from year to year.... How can both of those things happen? Not to only focus on bitterness/alpha acid levels, instead mainly to keep it brief, but if, hypothetically, your Nugget crop from 2016 is, say, 13.6% AA, but comes in the next year at 15.1%, aren't you going to need to adjust the recipe to arrive at the listed 93 IBU? So, the recipe did in fact change.

Conversely, if you do not change the recipe....and the hops change in AA or aroma or whatever.... then people's perception of the beer certainly could be altered.

I'm not saying I know what is happening with thousands of people or more and their individual perceptions of a sensory and subjective thing. Just kicking around ideas. If we're beating a dead horse here, I'm fine with moving on.

 

That is correct - there is a need to adjust hop amounts to meet a target bitterness level (e.g., 93 IBUs).

OK, let's get to the topic of "the recipe is the same". Do you have documentation from a person from Troegs (i.e., a brewer) which has the verbiage of "the recipe is the same"?

Cheers!

 

Yes, I have a notarized series of documents that contain the official recipe sheets for every year of Nugget dating back to its inception.

Actually, I don’t. I had hoped I was successful in indicating I was going off of what was expressed here, in this thread, previously. Clearly success eluded me. I’m going off of the prevailing theory that oneraindog is of the belief that it has not changed. Considering most believe him to work there, I’m working off of that.

 

I personally do not know who oneraindog is.

It would be 'better' if there was something published on this topic (e.g., something published on the Troegs website, an interview published in a beer industry journal, etc.),

Cheers!

 

Sure, I am with you that we wish we could know everything about every brewery ever.

As I mentioned earlier, I went off of what we think we have at the time. We’ll have to leave it at that, for now.

 

Drinking my first of the year and it seems to be back to its glory. I did notice on the case that it now labels the IBUs at 93ish.

 

John, I never met the guy nor do I know who his real name is. In contrast I have had face to face conversations with Bill Covaleski, Ron Barchet, Shane Welch, Jean Broillet, Tom Kehoe and a long list of other Mid-Atlantic brewers. Do you happen to know what oneraindog’s real name is and what he does for Troegs?

Cheers!