Bioengineered Yeast

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by pweis909, Sep 13, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    PapaGoose03 likes this.
  2. RaulMondesi

    RaulMondesi Grand Pooh-Bah (5,343) Dec 11, 2006 California
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Bioengineered as in GMO? Don’t fuck with Mother Nature. If that is what this is, these scumbags can go to hell.
     
  3. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Yes, bioengineering is a term for gmo, in my estimation, but I have no knowledge of what they did here, molecularly.

    I thought it was interesting that they were going there, especially with this lactic souring effect, given that there was a story not too long ago about a wild yeast discovery that produces a similar effect:
    https://beerandbrewing.com/a-surprise-in-the-yeast/

    When I first saw the Lallemand press release, I thought it was about a commercial production of this wild strain. But that doesn't appear to be the case; the Lallemand yeast is described as Saccharomyces cerevisiae, not a new species of yeast.
     
    #3 pweis909, Sep 13, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
    PapaGoose03 likes this.
  4. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    I had a beer at HomebrewCon Pro-Brewers night that was made with that yeast. They had worked with Lallamand. We were warned that it was super sour, but I thought it was not as sour as I was warned. That's what I remember about it.
     
  5. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    It sounds like the big benefit is faster fermentation/souring by skipping the souring step, but it also sounds like the sour taste MAY be so intense that blending with another yeast or blending with a non-sour batch of beer is recommended. That sounds like some unpredictability in the end result of the beer depending on the blending skill of the brewer. That could be tricky until the skill is achieved.

    But the non-bacterial definition of this yeast sure eliminates the contamination exposure of the brewing equipment, and that's a big plus.
     
  6. LeRose

    LeRose Grand Pooh-Bah (4,423) Nov 24, 2011 Massachusetts
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Here's what did here following the link to the product page at the end of the article.

    "Sourvisiae® contains a single genetic modification, a lactate dehydrogenase gene from a food microorganism, which enables the yeast to produce high levels of lactic acid, the main compound that gives sour beers their flavor." - Sourvisiae product page, Lallemand

    So a snip from one organism inserted into the S. cerevisae and eventually raptors take over the planet... Sarcasm aside, this is pretty cool from the technical perspective, in my opinion. Is it a way to cheat when making sour beers - possibly, but if you can use a simple yeast and keep your facility otherwise clean and free from risk (ie, the organism is controlled and controllable similar to conventional yeast) assuming you also make things non-sour? I'd do it in a heartbeat.

    The wild yeast - interesting read. It would not necessarily be designated as a new species - more than likely a sub-species or a strain of the organism. That seems to be what the folks who discovered have decided for now, anyway, according to the article.
     
  7. MNAle

    MNAle Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    If this yeast strain provides economic benefit to brewers, good.

    The anti GMO in food movement has the same scientific credibility as the anti vaccine movement.
     
    emalc, rightcoast7, bmugan and 15 others like this.
  8. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    I’m not anti gmo. Like any technology, there are risks until you understand it, and there are ways to use it responsibly or irresponsibly. I knew gmo would push some buttons but I really was hoping for beer-focused and industry-focused discussion, and specifics on the particular biology if anyone was in the know (I would think the easiest way to do this is with some lactic acid bacteria genes).

    I was listening to a podcast today about hops and it touched on GMOs and hops. Sounds like that sector does not feel the beer consumers are ready to go there.

    I was also thinking about sour beer brewers and the difficulty people experience making sours with wild yeast or even commercial strains of Brett, lacto, pedio, etc. Those brewers can throw away a lot of beer, making it economically challenging. They have set price points accordingly. There already are more easily made kettle sours that can be made more cheaply and might cut into the market if the traditional sour makers. Add to that gmo yeasts that might take out some of the guesswork and variability. It makes me wonder if the traditional approach can survive.
     
    PapaGoose03 likes this.
  9. nc41

    nc41 Initiate (0) Sep 25, 2008 North Carolina
    Trader

    What’s wrong with natural yeast?
     
  10. woodchipper

    woodchipper Grand Pooh-Bah (3,735) Oct 25, 2005 Connecticut
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    So why is a random natural mutation by a cosmic ray or a disease or whatever better than an intended surgical mutation with a specific goal?
     
    emalc, Rug, rightcoast7 and 3 others like this.
  11. rgordon

    rgordon Pooh-Bah (2,701) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    I agree. It sure seems to me that plants and beings morph and hybridize on their own. My compost bin has birthed some great volunteer tomato plants all across my property. I pick up to 50 mostly cherry tomatoes twice a day and some plants produce more than one type of tomato. I always use the compost for planting. I sure as hell didn't do this on purpose. The Leyland Cypress was developed at N.C. State and any semblance of ice breaks them apart. But they do grow fast!
     
    larryi86 and pweis909 like this.
  12. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    I’m sure you and I could find a lot of common ground over a few beers. Until then, I’ll just say that I’ve never had a beer made with gmo yeast, so I don’t know if it is any better or worse than what I have had, and will reserve judgment until I learn more
     
    anfield86 and PapaGoose03 like this.
  13. Zorro

    Zorro Grand Pooh-Bah (3,258) Dec 25, 2003 California
    Pooh-Bah

    So what?

    There are lots of Genetically engineered bacteria, chances you have taken a drug made by one.

    So what if they engineer a yeast to produce hop acids to make a faster lager or something?
     
  14. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Grand Pooh-Bah (3,966) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    your volunteer tomato seeds out of compost are pretty much the opposite of genetically modified organisms. that is traditional seed propagation in the extreme.
     
  15. rgordon

    rgordon Pooh-Bah (2,701) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Whatever it is a new type(s) of tomato seems to emerge every year. And they are healthy and largely disease resistant. Just before our first frost last Fall, I harvested 128 cherry tomatoes from one plant. I love it.
     
  16. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Well, if used by a "craft" brewer, it would be hailed as "INNOVATIVE".

    If used by a "macro" brewer, it would be derided as an "ABOMINATION" and attacked as being done simply for economic reasons.

    Similar to the geekery's changed opinion on brewing techniques like high gravity brewing, force carbonation, non-barley grain adjunct usage, adjuncts in sugar/syrup form, speeded-up lagering, hop pellets/extract, enzyme-usage, non-traditional flavoring ingredients, etc.
     
    BBThunderbolt, Rug, marquis and 18 others like this.
  17. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Absolute truth.
     
  18. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Grand Pooh-Bah (3,966) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Yep seed saving is a wonderful way to get better produce from your garden. Especially in conjunction with compost! And no experimental biotech required
     
  19. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I'm not making a case for (or against) GMOs, and there are certainly different degrees of messing around with nature, but the hops, barley, and yeast used to make the beer you're currently drinking are all cases of messing around with "mother nature."
     
    afrokaze, meefmoff, Coronaeus and 2 others like this.
  20. rgordon

    rgordon Pooh-Bah (2,701) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    The thing is the best and most productive plants are volunteers that emerge anywhere I've used compost.
     
    unlikelyspiderperson likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.