Why Aren't There More Barrel Aged Lagers?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by ESHBG, Jul 14, 2020.

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  1. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Grand Pooh-Bah (3,966) Mar 12, 2013 California
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    @Domingo pretty much covered it. Once you eliminate ales and the lighter lagers less likely to be candidates for barrel aging you are left with a tiny portion of the total beers being made. Given that (assuming you are talking about aging in used barrels for the purpose of imparting flavor) the technique is not traditional and that many people making these already niche styles are probably at least somewhat interested in the beer traditions its easy to see why its pretty rare.

    Neutral wood vessels for aging are on the rise though and as more.and more.breweries have developed the supply chains and infrastructure for barrel aging I'm sure we'll see some rise in experimental barrel practices.

    I'd imagine that a spirit barrel used to age a big ale could become a potential home for a lager that maybe wouldn't hold up well to the assertive flavors of a freshly emptied spirit barrel
     
  2. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
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    Well, technically ..:wink:.. AB's "Beechwood Aging" technique dates from the once common use of a "chip cellar" by US lager brewers, a process that typically came after lagering and part of the kraeusening and clarification process (although most current AB promo material combine all three processes).
    [​IMG]
    Pretty sure I've read of some brewers using chips of aluminum, too :grimacing: (not quite the same romance as beech or hazlewood).

    AB was an early adopter of glass-lined tanks. By the turn of the last century they were advertising that they had 200 100-bbl. capacity Pfaulder glass-lined lagering tanks in Stock House #10. Not sure I've ever come across what they used previously as far as the type of wood, size, etc, but in the late 1890s Adolphus Busch was still talking about the "the fine aroma of pitch and hops" in his version of Budweiser and how the Bavarian pitch used Buegerliches Brauhaus at Budweis at was "...absolutely free of all impurities and turpentine...".

    But many brewers, even post-Repeal, were still largering in wooden tanks and advertised they beers as "Aged in the Wood".
    [​IMG]
     
    #22 jesskidden, Jul 14, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
  3. Providence

    Providence Pooh-Bah (2,652) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island
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    I'm not too huge into barrel-aged stuff, but I had draft of a maibock that was aged in bourbon barrels at Jack's Abby years ago and it was incredible. I remember not knowing what to expect and then being totally blown away.
     
  4. Roadkizzle

    Roadkizzle Initiate (0) Nov 6, 2007 Texas

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  5. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
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    Hantke in his chapter on chips mentions that aluminum chips were often used in Germany.

    Bitburger used to mention a patent for "Simon-späner" on the history page of their website, which was awarded to the then owner Bertrand Simon in 1928 for metal "späne" (the German term for such chips) used for clarifying beer (they don't mention what type of metal, but one would assume it was aluminum in order to make it lightweight). Apart from using them in their own brewery they were selling them dometically and internationally until shortages of materials in WW2 shut down production. Of course these look more like perforated sheets than they do shavings, but the concept was the same, and they replaced the organic chips with a metal substitute.
    [​IMG]
     
  6. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    :grin::wink:

    If there was enough consumer demand for lagers with flavors coming from spirit barrels then brewers would make them even though the production process would probably be a pain. Too much investment with too little reward currently. Your current audience for it is likely a niche of a niche of a niche audience. People who buy into so-called barrel aged beers are mainly looking to be hit over the head with flavor. Subtlety in the product is disliked. That’s not a knock, I’m just calling it like I constantly see it. Lagers are often associated with beer for quantity drinking or easy drinking. Subtlety can be prized but not necessarily. How many people are shopping for a product that’s neither here nor there? On top of that - We’ve been trained to pay less for lagers than most other beers, and we’ve been trained to pay more for barrel-aged beers than most other beers. There just seems to be little incentive (both commercially and from a brewing perspective) to go the extra production mile with a beer like that. I could certainly see this eventually changing though. And BTW - craft “baltic porters” don’t count. They only exist as a way for lager-centric brewers to play the flavored stout game. They are the opposite of new ground.
     
  7. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    I do not have a chip cellar as part of my homebrewery but if I were to implement one I think that using metal vs. wood could be a superior solution from a sanitation perspective. I recognize that AB takes precautions to treat their beechwood strips ('cleaning' with baking soda to mitigate wood flavor contributions, heat sanitation (sterilization?), etc.) for their one time use but metal just 'feels' right for me. I likely would choose stainless steel vs. aluminum out of an abundance of caution (since aluminum is alleged to have potential health effects).

    Cheers!
     
  8. HammsMeASAP

    HammsMeASAP Pundit (931) Jun 14, 2012 Minnesota

    Because a good lager doesn't need unnecessary flavors added to it like most barrel-aged beers.
     
  9. ESHBG

    ESHBG Pooh-Bah (2,099) Jul 30, 2011 Pennsylvania
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    This is the chicken or the egg argument to me, though, as maybe the demand isn't there because the options aren't there. Also, I have never found a BA beer to be over the top in flavors. Complex? Absolutely. But I was never hit over the head with extreme flavors in any that I have tried.
     
  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    I agree 100% here. Every BA beer I have tasted had subtle flavors from the barrel aging. A little bit of vanilla, a little bit of...

    Now, the beers themselves may have had lots of flavors since the base beer was a RIS (or something similar).

    Cheers!
     
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  11. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
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    Yeah I wouldn't want to take any risks either by using aluminum ones.

    As an aside as per this article they reuse the chips about 6 times before discarding them. Reusing them is described as standard practise back in the day, which is where you had the greatest potential risk of infection I guess unless treated properly, and which made non-porous metal replacements interesting to some brewers.

     
  12. Redrover

    Redrover Grand Pooh-Bah (3,676) Jan 18, 2003 Illinois
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  13. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
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    They're not "one time use", according to a Newark brewer in a 2011 article
    Brewing Beer, Preserving the Planet
    EDIT @Crusader - Ha! I guess I shouldn't have taken a break after composing this email while I looked for an old photo I had (or thought I had) of AB workers laying out the chips. The same damn link, too! :grimacing:

    Nowadays, they use what they call "torpedoes" (IIRC - pre-dating Sierra Nevada's hop units) but I'm not sure if those are just containers to move them around or are they giant "tea balls" inserted into the tanks? Photos from the 'net via AB brewery tourists.
    [​IMG]
     
    #33 jesskidden, Jul 14, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
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  14. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    Yup, Patrik beat you to it above.

    A green initiative of the 21st century.

    Don't blink or you will miss something!:astonished:

    Cheers!
     
  15. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
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    They've been reusing them for awhile, as this 'snip' from an article about Miller's claim of them being "chemically-treated wood" notes.
    [​IMG]
    The passing them along to the landscaper for mulch appear new - but every industry become "green" when they realize they can give stuff away rather than pay another company to haul it to a dump.

    (Brewers, after all, have been doing that for decades with spent grain).
     
  16. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
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    I recently had a foeder aged Lager from Transient that was excellent. I don't think using spirits barrels would be good for the lighter flavored and bodied lagers, but some time in straight wood is good.
     
  17. ovaltine

    ovaltine Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,787) Apr 6, 2010 Indiana
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    I’m trying to think of the most delicate way to say this, but I’ll let it rip: every time I drink a really well-executed lager, I think of my father-in-law (RIP, Dad) and say to myself, “this is a beer drinker’s beer.” Straightforward, grassy/herbal hops and bready malt, no fruit flavors or candy flavors (I’m looking at you, cacao/chocolate), no coffee, no peppers. Just a “normal” beer.

    Putting the barrel around a “simple” lager introduces flavors that would make my father-in-law scrunch up his face and say, “Michael, why in the hell is there booze in my beer?”

    And I’d take it from him and say, “Here’s a Bud, Dad. Enjoy.”

    And he would. But a Bud with any kind of booze flavor whatsoever? That’s a no go.
     
    #37 ovaltine, Jul 14, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
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  18. PA-Michigander

    PA-Michigander Grand Pooh-Bah (3,372) Nov 10, 2013 Pennsylvania
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    Massacre, by Wolverine Brewing was far better than I had expected going in. They absolutely did it right.
     
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  19. keithmurray

    keithmurray Pooh-Bah (2,967) Oct 7, 2009 Connecticut
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    Please dont let this become a big trend. I like my pilsners, helles, kolsches, etc unadulterated (for the most part).
     
  20. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    Things like this will always have a chicken/egg element though. If you are asking why there aren’t more, then this will be part of the response.

    Regarding the flavor impact of barrel aging - perhaps I am sensitive. The impact is far from subtle to me. But, if the impact is actually subtle, then brewers are dealing with a lot of additional headaches in the production process for just a subtle impact... and drinkers are paying a lot extra for just a subtle impact. Seems odd, no? But you know, brewing is odd. :slight_smile:
     
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