Weihenstephan Festbier is underrated on BA scale

I’ve been preaching all fall how much I love this beer to friends. It’s probably been my favorite beer this year to date. Luckily I still have a six pack at home in the fridge. My rating on here was 4.46 rDev +18%

Maybe I loved it too much...

@sberg3

 

I treat them as two separate styles, because they are really kinda 180s from each other with completely different profiles. I prefer the lighter Fest, Marzens for me just come off as being too sweet, and the malts are a bit heavy. Just personal preference. I’m too ignorant on styles to be completely subjective here, I realize my limitations which is why I rarely rate beers, and have little interest in doing so to any real degree. I just give a simple bracket, but it’s still tied to my palate, my likes, my preferences. So I might say that beer is a 4.25 - 4.3, it’s just my impression. It’s disappointing to see a popular AAL rated at 1.8 when it’s clearly just a crisp harmless light lager. It’s not poison. Which is why I’m skeptical about ratings on some styles, most times it just reflects personal preference, but we always have a need to rate and rank thing, sports, beers, restaurants etc.

 

Unless you are talking about beer for sale in Germany, that notion of märzen only indicating strength is a non sequitur, especially in the USA. That is most definitely NOT what the term märzen means to USA beer drinkers (or most brewers either). Note the difference labeling for the two different substyles on the Paulaner beers imported into the USA. And, Paulaner is one of the Munich 6.

IMO, for the American market, stating that in Germany märzen means strength keeps the discussion messy.

 

Weihenstephan Festbier is an excellent example of the festbier substyle.

My rating was 3.74, with an rDev -1.1%.

To my palate, it is a very nice, somewhat strong, somewhat malty, helles. It is not what I look for in an Oktoberfest beer (even though it is closer to what is actually served in the tents at Munich).

Obviously, others differ. That's OK; better than OK, that's good.

 

I'd say that catering to the US's hazy opinion on what the term does and doesn't mean to them is why we have a dozen sub-styles of IPA (that will likely all be night and day different in 10 years) and people clamoring for "Italian-style Pilsner." Why can't categories be broad? Having a bunch of sub-styles that don't line up with one another is one reason beer styles are so eye-roll worthy right now.

 

Weihenstephaner festbier is absolutely fantastic, my personal favorite of the style. Ayinger is my favorite Marzen. I generally go through quite a few cases of each throughout Autumn and winter.

 

I also do not favor adding a style; hence, the term "substyle". A substyle is just that: a sub-category within the overall style. You bring up AIPAs. Is it also forbidden in your mind to discuss WCIPAs as a separate substyle of the AIPA? Must I consider all manner of AIPAs as one big lump?

It is helpful in the case of Oktoberfest beers to be able to distinguish the modern strong helles version from the previous strong amber version. Insisting that they are all the same with no way to discuss them is not helpful.

 

I’m the worst on these subjects so my question might seem a bit weird. But, If Weihenstephaner is a tad malty for the style, what Fest do you prefer? If you go less to the malt, and more to the hops how close to a Pils might you go? I’m not talking individual components here, I don’t understand the process, I’m only talking about what I actually get out of the glass.

 

I don't mind styles and sub-styles. I just don't care for leaning on the American definition for what it should be. The American craft beer scene is still young and it's wildly fickle. What we call a style this year may not even exist next year. Either that or we'll retroactively re-classify everything. Hence red IPA, white IPA, session IPA, strong pale ale, "American" IPA, etc. We keep trying to over-categorize and revise everything to suit the moment. It wasn't that long ago when IPA's from New England were malty and deep red. I'd venture a guess that more American Oktoberfests were inspired by Samuel Adams than anything in Germany. While that's fine (good for Boston Beer on that), I don't want our fickle opinion getting in the way of something that already exists, but doesn't line up with our reality.

 

I forgot to add, it is a DAMN GOOD beer!

 

I wasn't clear, sorry. I meant a tad malty for a helles.

 

Red Oak Helles imo is also a bit malty. I much prefer a clean crisp hop punch, but not too much.

As to pale Fests what’s your jam?

 

I prefer the maltier, darker märzen substyle. Here's my summary from my review of the Weihenstephan Festbier in the on-line Oktoberfest/Märzen tasting /NBW:

"Overall, and excellent German lager, but that pretty much also sums up why I prefer the Märzen substyle. While this style may be superior for all day drinking at the Fest, I don't buy these beers (or any beer these days) for that. The so-called Fest substyle just drinks to me like a generic German lager, rather than a seasonal to look forward to."

 

@FBarber posts quite a lot, why...

(oh, this is a case of mis-under-stand-reading-ing, again, isn't it)

I will state that I like categories being broad - but it seems the people that rate here (yes, overWHELMingly American, and to perhaps play into the point of @misteil) don't prefer the "substyle" of non-Märzen Festbier.


I do happen to see the discussion here as quite similar to the NE IPA/WC IPA "WTF? is an IPA" discussion. It's fun and frustrating at the same time

 

It's good, but there are better ones out there. Remember that Weihenstephaner is a Weizen brewery, bottom-fermented biers are not their main product.

 

This is the exact question I'd like to have answered. I completely understand and respect the discussion that Märzen has evolved into a strength designation in Germany. But then why do Spaten, H-P, and Paulaner all label a specific beer in (what certainly seems to be) a style designation?

Are they only doing it for export to the U.S. because they know it's what we often expect from an Oktoberfest seasonal? Or (as it appears with such taglines as Ur-Märzen and Traditional Amber Märzen on some labels) is it their nod to tradition?

I've often said I'd love to hear feedback directly from one of the Munich brewmasters on this oft debated subject. In the meantime, I have no problem enjoying both "sub-styles" each year. They're still my favorites by far.

 

I don't think they consider themselves strictly a Weizen brewery -- they brew Pilsner, Helles, and Bock beers all the time too.

Not to mention, all of the Munich breweries brew a Weizen alongside their lagers -- it's a popular style in Bavaria all around.

 

Only tagged him because he's a moderator.

 

I like the way you think.

I was going to say 3.8 in the non-American IPA world translates to at least 4.25 in American IPA-adjusted numbers. 3.5 is about a 4.0. 4.25 is about a 5.0. What's funny is we all know it, yet the inflation continues. Or maybe we don't all know it.

If I remember Weihenstephan Festbier right, it's almost as bread-malt peachy as a good English pale ale. Great beer. I gave it a 4.16 (+10.1% rDev) in 2015, and it sounds like I would rate it higher if I tried this year's batch.