DDH-ing and threshold

It is most commonly an indication not of hop volume, but rather number of times the dry hop occurred. Although some brewers will double the dry hop volume and call it ddh too. It is a relatively new term and there is not a definitive definition.

There definitely is a saturation level whereas it is either moot or even damaging to the end result.

 

It means whatever the brewer decides it means for that particular beer (despite what the above post states). So the answer to the first question is "sometimes," and the answer to the second question is "no." (and regarding your other questions, brewers do talk of crossing a "saturation point" and wasting hops)

 

Dr. Thomas Shellhammer studied dry hop amounts and the result of that study (using both analytical instrumentation and a trained panel of tasters) is that there is indeed a saturation effect for dry hop amounts:

“The first conclusion is that above 8 g/L the extraction of hop oils and the aroma contributions from those oils are nearly saturated. To use Shellhammer’s language dry hopping with more than 8 g/L (1.1 oz/gal or 2.1 lbs/bbl) is an inefficient use of raw materials.”

https://patspints.com/2019/01/16/the-surprising-science-of-dry-hopping-lessons-from-tom-shellhammer/

You can read more details in the above linked article.

Cheers!

 

Generally, the double is the number of times it's been dry hopped. Sure, there's some brewers who use it to refer to quantity, but they are a minority.

It's also generally accepted that the human palate can't really tell the difference once the IBUs get over about 100, so there is a point where using Moar Hops! is just wasting resources and money.

 

I believe that the DDH method that is defined as twice dry hopped (rather than double volume of hops) typically uses a hop choice (or a combo choice) for the first hopping that is known to be a flavoring hop, and the second hop choice typically is a hop that is best known for it's aroma. Sometimes the hops of each addition can do double duty and be the same hop or combo.

 

This part of my post looks crazy after @Brian29 edited his post. Please ignore it.

 

DDH-ing can really mean whatever the brewer wants it to mean. You get a lot of the vegetal or grassy notes from leaving the hops in too long on the cold side (dry hopping). Ideally to not get that you dry hop in stages and remove ones you threw in first. Which to me is double dry hopping, but again its whatever the brewer thinks it is.

 

Isomerization of the alpha acids in hops which contribute to bitterness only happens in the boil, which is before yeast is pitched and fermentation begins. Dry-hopping (even multi-phase, or “double” dry-hopping) only occurs after yeast has been pitched (some brewers dry-hop during/throughout fermentation and some wait until fermentation has completed). In other words, dry-hopping happens once the liquid is cold and alpha-acids are no longer being extracted from the plant matter, so this phase does not contribute IBUs/bitterness.

 

I'm busy brewing today, but there are bitter compounds that hops impart when dry hopping.

Will post some more on this and links later.

 

Yeah, I just quickly looked it up. It seems like the iso-alpha acids are extracted during dry-hopping (which is akin to cold-steeping), but not isomerized. Instead, it seems like polyphenols are what can contribute to bitterness and astringency in dry-hopped beers. Interesting. Thanks for giving me something new to look into. Also, please do post more and add some links! Cheers and happy brew day.

 

Instead of using more expensive hops if the goal is enamel stripping bitterness, just drop the malts to unbalance it a bit. Doesn’t have to be that awful session stuff, but you can do the d
same at higher abv levels too. I think

 

More precisely it is alpha acids which are extracted during dry hoping, Also another compound called humulinones is extracted as well. You can read more in the below link; I will provide a snippet here:

“One of the most fascinating hop studies that came out in 2016, was by authors John Maye, Robert Smith, and Jeremy Leker, which found (against traditional wisdom) that dry hopping can influence the bitterness of a beer. I covered the study in detail in an article called, “Increasing Bitterness by Dry Hopping,” which I would recommend reading prior to this article which serves as an update of sorts. In short, the study found that humulinones, which are more soluble than iso-alpha-acids are formed by the oxidation of alpha acids in hops and are 66% as bitter as iso-alpha-acids and have a “smoother” bitterness. The solubility of humulinones is the important part, unlike alpha-acids which are introduced into beer through boiling (becoming iso-alpha-acids), humulinones can be introduced into beer at normal temperatures via dry hopping, which means they can affect the final beer bitterness levels. Alpha acids also dissolve into beer with dry hopping and its concentration can be even higher than humulinones because hops contain so much more alpha-acids than humulinones. However, the bittering potential of alpha-acids is likely around 10% as bitter as iso-alpha-acids.”

http://scottjanish.com/dry-hopping-effect-bitterness-ibu-testing/

Cheers

 

A lot of really good questions.

As others have stated, double dry hop means whatever the hell the brewer wants it to mean. No laws that I am aware of.

A quick and simple overview of how hops are incorporated into beer. And this is meant to be quick and simple, as the chemistry can get complex. But it is important to understand the function of hops in beer, and how the hops are employed in each particular beer.

• Volatility refers to a compounds ability to change phase, that is liquid to vapor phase in this instance. Temperature change triggers the volatile change. So water requires quite a bit of heat (100C) to get from liquid to vapor, whereas Acetone changes phase at a bit more than half that temperature.
• Hops contain dozens of important volatile compounds. Some compounds are bitter. Some are "dank". Some are floral. Some are earthy, and so on. Some provide flavor. Some provide aroma, which is closely related to flavor. Some are undesirable.
• Each hop variety contains a wide range of these compounds and their relative presence is what defines the characteristics of the hop. Harsh bitterness, subtle pine aroma and so on.
• Getting hop bitterness into beer requires lots of boiling. The stuff is a pine resin after all, and you don't get that glue to dissolve into liquid without a ton of boiling.
• Because some of the most desirable hop aromas are also some of the most volatile, all the boiling just drives off the aroma, and most of the flavor as well.

So now we get to dry hopping.
Stuff enough hops into a cold liquid and some of the delicate aromas will make their way into the beer. But because we are dealing with a thick resin (think pine cone resin) lots of hops are needed to get any result. This is dry hopping. No heat. And it costs quite a bit because hops are not cheap. And dry hops soak up beer like a sponge, which gets tossed with the hops. So that's beer that is made and not sold.

Voila, dry hopped beer. Need more aroma? Solution, add more hops! Still not enough? Add more! Want to get people to get really excited about the great hop aroma you have managed to jam into your world beating, most exciting, must buy, greatest beer ever made in the history of brewing?
Keep it up though and soon you are packing the beer full of all the other volatiles, including the compounds you don't want. And beer like any liquid, will become saturated. Eventually the crappy compounds overcome the delicate aromas you wanted to get in there in the first place, and the beer becomes a glass of cow pasture on a hot day. And our threshold to identify odors is not universal, so that too. Some odors easily overpower everything else. Think sulfur.

Double Dry Hop the mofo, and then never shut up about it.
That is Double Dry Hopping in a nutshell.

Cheers

 

Jack covered one link.

See if you can find the MBAA podcast with John Paul Maye.

 

While it's true that the human palate is "incapable" of "tasting" above 100 IBU's. I don't think that means we are incapable of sensing it. I compare it to the lowest range of our hearing, meaning human ears are incapable to hear sounds below that pitch. Phil Lesh's bass guitar produces sounds in a register too low to hear, but they definitely can be experienced, and they definitely add to the overall experience. I don't believe that making a recipe that showcases effects of overhopping beyond the point which human palates can "taste" is necessarily a waste, and I have tasted beers that bear this out.

 

Why does it always come back to The Dead with you?

 

What's the threshold before hops become toxic to the human body?

 

Hmm, I'll have to ask my analyst when he gets released from prison this time.

 

https://www.masterbrewerspodcast.com/

Episode 004