Clean Saisons

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by JackRWatkins, Jun 8, 2021.

Tags:
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. JackRWatkins

    JackRWatkins Maven (1,472) Nov 3, 2014 Georgia
    Trader

    Are you aware of/what do you think of the term "Clean Saison". It's one I've seen pop-up over the past few years, and although I can imagine what it means, I've yet to try a beer that describes itself as such. My assumption is that it's an attempt to draw a distinction between beers that taste like Saison DuPont and beers that taste like Fantôme (ie. extremely funky or sour). First, do I understand this correctly and second, what are people's thoughts on the term. If I understand it correctly, I think there's a whole lot of utility in it.

    I hate buying a saison expecting something more like a DuPont, and getting something more like a Gueuze.
    I love sour beer, but that's not what I want when I buy a saison.
     
  2. dennisthreeninefiveone

    dennisthreeninefiveone Pundit (980) Aug 11, 2020 New Jersey
    Trader

    I've never heard the term before. I would think it's a Saison with no added flavors,
     
    eppCOS and ChicagoJ like this.
  3. JackRWatkins

    JackRWatkins Maven (1,472) Nov 3, 2014 Georgia
    Trader

    By no added flavors, do you mean no adjuncts?
     
    ChicagoJ likes this.
  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I personally do not use the terminology of “clean Saison” but my interpretation of this would be that it is a Classic Saison. @mrmattosgood in post #928 of the A Salute to Saisons thread asked:

    “When you all are drinking your farmhouse ales, what's your typical go-to, style-wise? Are we talking classic saison yeast? Mixed fermentation? Wild fermentation? If you had one to pick, what would you go with, why?”

    A Classic Saison would be ‘clean’ within the context of not having the attributes that Brett and/or bacteria would bring to a mixed/wild fermented Saison.

    Cheers!
     
  5. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,157) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    In Memoriam Pooh-Bah Trader

    Clean saison? Haven't heard the term, but it strikes me as being somewhat of an oxymoron, considering the roots of the style.
     
    DEdesings57, Rug, eppCOS and 6 others like this.
  6. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,995) Jul 5, 2010 Virginia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    I'd agree with your assumption, a no Brett or bacteria saison. You know, the ones that most American brewers produce, but aren't noticed by beer geeks because they don't have fancy packaging and cost around $12-15 per 6pk instead per 750ml.
     
    Rug, SFACRKnight, eppCOS and 11 others like this.
  7. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    While not a term I've seen before, it makes sense. Since saisons vary greatly, and many aren't funky (DuPont, Hennepin), I think "clean" is a decent way to capture that feel.

    Similarly, I tend to think of "imperial" strength saisons a little differently, as well. Not requiring a new label, just the approach. A higher ABV, sweeter saison is a very different beer than a 5-6%, drier saison - and they're both different than a wild saison.
     
    Rug, eppCOS, Bitterbill and 3 others like this.
  8. REVZEB

    REVZEB Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,686) Mar 28, 2013 Illinois
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    It's like we need multiple styles on BA for saisons or something... #splitupsaisons
     
    ManBearPat, Rug, o29 and 4 others like this.
  9. JackRWatkins

    JackRWatkins Maven (1,472) Nov 3, 2014 Georgia
    Trader

    I believe I've heard Burial use the term a few times and saw another brewery using it the other day (I'll have to go check to see who that was). I would say though, I know everyone is interested in the historical roots and accuracy of a style at least in terms of naming conventions, but sometimes I think concern for that can come at the expense of clarity in labeling and thus utility for the consumer. Just a thought.
     
    cavedave, Bitterbill and ChicagoJ like this.
  10. JackRWatkins

    JackRWatkins Maven (1,472) Nov 3, 2014 Georgia
    Trader

    Very true. I do think there is a point of over categorization, but it's a delicate balance, there's a spectrum where it becomes hazy (no pun intended) what is what, but that doesn't mean there are not firm camps or poles that make sense as benchmarks.
     
    Bitterbill and Roguer like this.
  11. JackRWatkins

    JackRWatkins Maven (1,472) Nov 3, 2014 Georgia
    Trader

    To be clear, it's not a term I coined, and I'll just as happily go along with whatever could manage to be come a popular term for what's being referred to. What's important to me is to feel like I have some sense of the ballpark I'm in so-to-speak before I buy, without always having to research.
     
  12. JackRWatkins

    JackRWatkins Maven (1,472) Nov 3, 2014 Georgia
    Trader

    I agree about the American Brewers comment. I'll say this though, saison is my favorite style and when I'm looking for a bottle of beer in a bottle shop, I look for things with hideous labels, covered in dust with primarily french text, that's typically how I know I've found something really good. :joy:
     
  13. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,995) Jul 5, 2010 Virginia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    I was referring more to the folks who complain about not being able to find local saisons and trade for the brett/sour stuff from hyped breweries.
     
    SFACRKnight and Bitterbill like this.
  14. dennisthreeninefiveone

    dennisthreeninefiveone Pundit (980) Aug 11, 2020 New Jersey
    Trader

    No I mean no added flavors. Adjuncts are grains beside barley malt that are used to make the wort.
     
  15. JackRWatkins

    JackRWatkins Maven (1,472) Nov 3, 2014 Georgia
    Trader

    gotcha
     
    Bitterbill likes this.
  16. JackRWatkins

    JackRWatkins Maven (1,472) Nov 3, 2014 Georgia
    Trader

    I feel that. Frankly I just can't get very interested in a bunch of beers that want to be Gueuze but cost more and don't taste as good. I'm aware that's a generalization, there's obviously some nuance there, but you get the point...
     
  17. M-Fox24

    M-Fox24 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,941) Mar 17, 2013 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Not saying Beechum coined the term either, but based on your initial comparison between Dupont & Fantôme, assuming you have seen his article on Clean (Modern) Saison & Funky Farmhouse?

    https://beerandbrewing.com/saison-and-funk-a-plea-for-moderation/
     
    MrOH and Bitterbill like this.
  18. JackRWatkins

    JackRWatkins Maven (1,472) Nov 3, 2014 Georgia
    Trader

    Bitterbill likes this.
  19. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,071) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Mod Team BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    If it is Burial using the term, I would think they would be using it to differentiate from their mixed-culture saisons.
     
  20. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Well first of all, I don’t think many saisons are sour. Funky, yes. Farmhouse-y? OK. Sour, no.

    And furthermore, I’m not going to sit here and silently endure the implication that Saison Dupont is anything other than the archetype of the style. Clean? Unclean? Whatever.
     
    JrGtr and Bitterbill like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.