Breaking Out Czech Lagers

Idea Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by Sheppard, Sep 10, 2021.

Tags:
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Sheppard

    Sheppard Grand Pooh-Bah (3,516) Mar 16, 2013 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    It's cool to be invited to the "Style Council." I actually started a thread on styles earlier this year in Beer Advocate Talk - specifically with regards to Czech Lagers (Thread here).

    I realize that BA has said "In time these entries will be moved into more accurate categories" with regards to certain styles (this was pulled from the Euro Dark Lager style description).

    I wanted to bring this up again since you have the local Tmavy in the Euro Dark, the Polotmavy in Vienna Lager.

    Lagers are getting more respect but there's still a general bias against them and it sucks to have further obstacles, coming from a lager advocate - I think that these fine lagers being misclassified is one we would like to avoid.

    I'm sure this is already in the queue and has mod support...
     
    #1 Sheppard, Sep 10, 2021
    Rug, REVZEB, Jacobier10 and 3 others like this.
  2. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    I fully support this. Let's discuss and make it happen!
     
    #2 Todd, Sep 10, 2021
    carolinabeerguy, dbrauneis and Sheppard like this.
  3. Sabtos

    Sabtos Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,920) Dec 15, 2015 Ohio
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I'd imagine this might take some work to do, unless the style is in the name, like Dovetail's.

    Since the Euro Dark Lager category already mentions Czech, that would just need to be boiled down a little more.
     
    #3 Sabtos, Sep 10, 2021
    ChicagoJ, Rug, REVZEB and 1 other person like this.
  4. beergoot

    beergoot Grand High Pooh-Bah (9,310) Oct 11, 2010 Colorado
    Mod Team BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Nothing wrong with sending an edit request (i.e., Beer Tools) to change the style to 'Lager - European Dark' since the description (from Notch Brewing, I assume) claims the name loosely translates to "half-dark" and says it's a rare Czech lager. That'll provide some consistency to the categorization of the Czech style beers in question until (or if) Czech / Bohemian lager sub-styles get expanded
     
    #4 beergoot, Sep 10, 2021
  5. Jacobier10

    Jacobier10 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,102) Feb 23, 2004 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah

    I'm no expert in Czech lagers by any means, but if we are looking for a simple way to categorize them the question for me is do you break them up by color or by strength (gravity)?

    Color
    • Světlé (pale)
    • Polotmavé (amber)
    • Tmavé (dark)
    Gravity
    • Výčepní (7 - 10 °P)
    • Ležák (11 - 12 °P)
    • Speciální (13+ °P)
    My initial thought is it makes more sense to do it by color, since outside of the Czech Republic gravities are not always listed in the beer's name or description. It would also keep it somewhat consistent with how German lagers are divided on BA, since those are not broken out by gravity classes. It's not perfect but I think it's a step in the right direction.
     
    #5 Jacobier10, Sep 10, 2021
    ChicagoJ, unlikelyspiderperson, Rug and 5 others like this.
  6. Sheppard

    Sheppard Grand Pooh-Bah (3,516) Mar 16, 2013 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Mods may have more to say on this but if the Czech subcategories are being formed, I don't know if it makes sense to request for these beers to be moved to a different style if they're only going to be moved again.
    This is how I would go, but I am by no means a Czech lager expert. Love to hear what others have to say.
     
    #6 Sheppard, Sep 10, 2021
    Jacobier10 and beergoot like this.
  7. beergoot

    beergoot Grand High Pooh-Bah (9,310) Oct 11, 2010 Colorado
    Mod Team BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    From my experience of adding beers and recommending style changes, mods rely a lot on the beer adders description of the style unless they have some innate insight to the beer in question.

    FWIW - I submitted a style change request because the beer's description and name squarely indicate its Czech-style roots. Sure, the the second sentence of the description says it's a "distant cousin to the Vienna lager", but I think changing the current style is appropriate and isn't anything hard or time consuming to do. This, at least, will get the beer into the more appropriate beer style category than it is currently.
     
    #7 beergoot, Sep 10, 2021
  8. Sheppard

    Sheppard Grand Pooh-Bah (3,516) Mar 16, 2013 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    #8 Sheppard, Nov 20, 2021
    REVZEB, Rug and Todd like this.
  9. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    The BJCP updated their Beer Style Guidelines in 2015 with four new Czech beer styles:

    “3. CZECH LAGER

    3A. Czech Pale Lager

    3B. Czech Premium Pale Lager

    3C. Czech Amber Lager

    3D. Czech Dark Lager”

    By all reports this ‘works’ for BJCP so why not for BA?

    Na Zdravi
     
    #9 JackHorzempa, Nov 20, 2021
    ChicagoJ, Sheppard, PapaGoose03 and 3 others like this.
  10. Sheppard

    Sheppard Grand Pooh-Bah (3,516) Mar 16, 2013 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Beautiful. What are the definition differences between a pale and a premium pale? Is it plato?
     
    #10 Sheppard, Dec 3, 2021
  11. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Yes, the difference in Original Gravity (and therefore ABV).

    Cheers!
     
    #11 JackHorzempa, Dec 3, 2021
    Rug and Sheppard like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.