1.083 OG - Yeast Starter

To obtain a value of a needed amount of 133 billion yeast cells for your 1.083 OG ale via the Brewer’s Friend Yeast Pitch Rate and Starter Calculator tool you need to have selected a volume of 5.0 gallons and a pitch rate of 0.35 million cells/ml/P.

The Mr. Malty Yeast Calculator tool indicates a value of 283 billion yeast cells since that tool assumes a pitch rate of 0.75 million yeast cells/ml/P. This value of 0.75 million yeast cells/ml/P is applicable for the case of re-using yeast.

Since you will be using a new vial of WLP670, the pitch rate of 0.75 million yeast cells/ml/P (which applies to re-using yeast) is a conservative pitch rate value.

I am confident that you will hear opinions from other BAs, who are advocates of the Mr. Malty yeast tool, that you should pitch per the values from M. Malty.

Since the Boulevard Tank 7 Clone is your beer, you get to decide how much yeast you want to pitch. Maybe you will select some value in between?

Cheers!

 

I would shoot for the 4 liter starter, or just one gallon. To go about it just shoot for a gravity of 1.040. I do it by using 18 oz of crushed grain, soaking it at 151 deg for 30 min , boil for 15. If you want to use dry malt extract, use 3/4 lb with one gallon, which will give you a 1.044 OG. This will give you plenty of yeast

 

From the White Labs website FAQ:

"How can I pitch 1 million cells per ml per degree Plato?

Some homebrewers now want to pitch more yeast in 5 gallons then a pint starter. An often quoted number is to pitch 1 million cells/ml/degree Plato of beer, which equals about 250 billion cells for 5 gallons. That is okay, more cells are not detrimental until about 400 billion cells. For those that enjoy yeast culturing and want 250 billion cells, one vial can be added directly to 2 liters of wort starter, and after two days of incubation, will be equal to roughly 250 billion cells. Is this necessary? Every brewer will have a different opinion, but here is some information:

a. The source of the 1 million cells/ml/degree Plato figure: Professional brewery literature.
Most professional breweries re-pitch their yeast because they have the fermentor design and facilities to reuse yeast. So most brewery pitches are actually re-pitches, and only 2-10% of brewery pitchings are using freshly propagated yeast. One of the main sources of contamination in a brewery is the pitching yeast. So in order to out-compete other organisms, large quantities of yeast must be pitched. When propagated by a professional yeast laboratory, the yeast is grown under sterile conditions, sterileoxygen and special nutrients are used to improve cell construction and performance. This does not occur in a brewery, so numbers they use to "pitch" take into account the inadequacy of their brewers yeast. The yeast is also unhealthy due to prolonged growth without oxygen and nutrients. In addition, brewers yeast will always contain some contaminants that need to be out-grown, and 1 million cells per ml per degree Plato has been found to be the best marriage of high pitching rates and no negative flavor effects (Higher pitching rates can lead to unhealthy yeast and a "yeasty" off bite). Liquid yeast grown by a professional laboratory should have no contaminants, so out competing contaminants found in the pitching yeast is not a concern.

One thing that contributes to flavor contribution in beer is yeast growth. If less yeast is pitched into beer, more yeast growth takes place, so more flavor compounds such as esters are produced. Depending on the amount produced, this is how pitching rates can have a direct effect on flavor profile. If 5 to 10 billion cells are pitched into wort, this definitely has a negative flavor impact in terms of higher ester levels and potential for bacterial contamination. But does a pint starter worth of yeast (30-50 billion cells) pitched into beer tasted different then 2 liters worth of yeast (250 billion cells)? Sounds like more homebrew has to be made to get to the bottom of this! Your feedback is appreciated."

 

I think if you're going to keep insisting that this value is conservative, you should offer the pitch rate that you think is correct or best. Otherwise it's not really actionable advice.

 

Is Tank 7 really a 1.083 beer? That seems pretty high, since it must finish dry. I'm thinking you're going to end up with a 10% beer. I also thought it used wyeast 3711. That yeast is such a beast, you could probably pitch 2 packs and call it good.

 

Does highly attenuating (i.e. genetic disposition to use maltotriose) equal greater call vitality and/or stronger cell membranes (i.e. the ability to propagate beyond other strains, given the same environment) and/or anything else that would indicate less cells are needed? Or in other words, what do you mean by "beast?"

 

Good catch on the OG value, Tank 7 is 17.3°P (1.071 specific gravity).

@Build_A_Brew, you need to back down on your OG value.

Cheers!

“Tank 7 Farmhouse Ale

•Style: Saison/Farmhouse Ale
•Availability: Year-round, Draught and both 750 mL and 4-Pack Bottles
•Locations: Try our Beer Finder

Most breweries have at least one piece of equipment that’s just a bit persnickity. Here at Boulevard we have fermenter number seven, the black sheep of our cellar family. Ironically, when our brewers were experimenting with variations on a traditional Belgian-style farmhouse ale, the perfect combination of elements came together in that very vessel. You could call it fate, but they called it Tank 7, and so it is. Beginning with a big surge of fruity aromatics and grapefruit-hoppy notes, the flavor of this complex, straw-colored ale tapers off to a peppery, dry finish.

Color (EBC) 12
Bitterness (IBUs) 38
Original Gravity (Plato) 17.3
Terminal Gravity (Plato) 2.5
Alcohol (ABV) 8.5%
CO2 - Bottles 3.5 vol. (7.0 g/L)
CO2 - Kegs 2.6 vol. (5.1 g/L)

 

This is a pretty interesting topic for me. The last batch of red rye ipa I brewed was 10 gallons so I made a starter and split it between two 5 gallon fermenters pouring in the wort on top and dosing them with O2. One batch came out less interesting than previous batches (the 1st 5 gallons of wort) and the other came out very tasty. Ive been racking my brain trying to figure out what made them so different. Naturally I know the yeast should have been the main factor but what attribute. I have suspicions it could have been the trub but the beer before this one had a similar thing going on so I think my ability to split the starter after brewing all day is questionable... I have noticed that with this Conan yeast when my pitch rate is higher it seems to become more boring, I would think you should see the same thing with this Tank 7 Recipe.

 

I mean that it will attenuate like crazy, and if you're low by 25% on the cell count, it probably won't matter that much. It's a farmhouse ale, so it's supposed to taste kind of like shit.

 

1. Not all yeast calculators use the same assumptions. Mrmalty thinks you should pitch at a rate of 0.75 million cells/ml/°P which yields a need for the 283B cells. Brewersfriend gives you the option of picking the pitch rate you think is best. If you prefer to pitch at lower rate, obviously a lower cell count will result.

2. IMO there are few times you shouldn't make a starter. This proves your yeast are still alive, improves their health which improves their fermentation ability, and should result in enough growth for a proper pitch rate.

3. I would not recommend a 4L starter. I would recommend 283B cells (I prefer the 0.75 pitch rate from experience).

The key to making a starter is not the starter size, rather the pitch rate. If your yeast is a month old you are working with ~80B cells. Looking on Brewersfriend calculator for starters, if you pitched 80B cells in a 4.46L starter this would have an innoculation rate of less than 18 million cells/ml (that's in the fine print under growth rate). In theory this will yield 283B, but it is an inefficient way to do it, essentially you are making beer instead of growing cells. You want a starter to have an innoculation rate in the 25 -125 million cells/ml range. That's not ironclad, but a decent starting point.

Growth of yeast is non-linear. If I wanted 283B cells I would do two steps: the first would be in the 0.75L range that would have a ~100 million cells/ml rate and should yield ~155B (shaking selected). Then step this up to 1.25L (rate of 124 millions cells/ml) which should give you your 283+B. Yes you read that correctly; a 0.75L starter and and a 1.25L starter will yield the same as a 4.46L starter. That's because you had the starter innoculation rates in a more optimum range for growing cells.

Each calculator has their own assumptions about pitch rates and growth due to shaking/stir-plates. Lots of smart people spent time developing this criteria, but I bet the yeast would laugh their ass off if they ever saw it (if yeast could read and had asses). The little guys do as they please, but I find using the yeast calculators gives a solid starting point. I treat estimating the proper pitch rate as important as weighing the grain or measuring the water.

 

My homebrew buddy & I brewed a Tank 7 clone a few months ago as well. We used a 2 L starter. 100g of DME per Liter. Came out just fine. Hit our numbers. You need not worry about a 4L starter. Take it from somebody who has actually brewed this clone (using the recipe from Boulevard no less) and had fantastic results. Prosit!