$100 IPAs - Yea I'm Talking to You TreeHouse.....

Discussion in 'Trade Talk' started by D09daryl, Jun 14, 2018.

  1. D09daryl

    D09daryl Initiate (119) Mar 11, 2017 California
    Beer Trader

    I hate to quote secondary and such, but when did a single can of IPA command such a ridiculous valuation, and WTF is wrong with people. There is so much good beer readily available throughout the entire country, i just straight up cannot comprehend this shit.
     
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  2. pmoney

    pmoney Crusader (741) Apr 15, 2011 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Some people are greedy assholes.

    Some people have too much money or make poor spending decisions.

    The end.
     
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  3. brutalfarce

    brutalfarce Initiate (174) Mar 23, 2018 Connecticut
    Beer Trader

    I mean more power to the people trying to sell them, hard to blame someone trying to make money on the perceived scarcity of this beer. It's on TH more than anything running their hype machine hard and strong. I went up there back in April and they opened early (unannounced) which agitated me then it was a "beer pours at our discretion" day which is bull and when I asked the person if they were going to do pours they were like maybe if the line gets manageable "oh wait it's pretty short" then no pours were started. I don't understand how they can not want to make as much as possible by selling pours when it seems they are all about making money. I mean the beer is good i'll give them that but between the silent releases and then how that affects the grey market is crazy. Rant over still love their beer just not the charade to get it.
     
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  4. Sturgeon83

    Sturgeon83 Disciple (355) Mar 11, 2015 Kentucky
    Beer Trader

    I think the social media "I want to take a picture of me drinking a beer you can't get" brand of shitlordery has no small effect on this type of idiocy. That being said, while I certainly wouldn't spend $100 for a can of anything, but I can't begrudge anybody for the way they spend their money.
     
  5. NeroFiddled

    NeroFiddled Poo-Bah (9,517) Jul 8, 2002 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    Nor will I begrude anyone for the way they spend their money, because that means to envy it, but I will laugh at them!
     
  6. Junior

    Junior Disciple (375) May 23, 2015 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    It’s not a grey market. It’s an illegal black market.
     
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  7. Beer_Economicus

    Beer_Economicus Disciple (395) Apr 8, 2017 Indiana
    Beer Trader

    To be honest, if anyone is cost-conscious, aren't a ticker, and not a social-media whore, I think they would wait for the next batch.

    Given how increasingly common these rare-beers are being brewed by Treehouse over the last...6-7 months (or is it less?), I suspect that we'll see another batch in the near future. I think Very Green is a great example of this, where people went ape shit when it was first released several months ago (first in a LONG time I believe), and then they did 1 or 2 other runs of it since then. It's my understanding that it is much easier to trade for now.

    (Disclaimer: I'm not very well acquainted with Treehouse releases/schedules, just an observation combined with what I have read over the past few months. Someone may think I am full of shit, and that's fine, I have little basis for arguing that I am not.)
     
  8. brutalfarce

    brutalfarce Initiate (174) Mar 23, 2018 Connecticut
    Beer Trader

    Pretty sure it's a grey market as the item being sold is not illegal to start with but maybe I'm wrong not that it seems something worthy of an argument.
     
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  9. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Site Editor (7,037) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    Not grey market - black market and illegal. Really no different than selling any leftover prescription drugs that you have (I'm sure you would agree that is not a grey market).
     
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  10. brutalfarce

    brutalfarce Initiate (174) Mar 23, 2018 Connecticut
    Beer Trader

    but again selling prescription drugs is illegal, beer is not also concede that this is not worth arguing about

    The grey market, also referred to as the parallel market, is a market where a product is bought and sold outside of the manufacturer's authorized trading channels

    The black market is where people traffic in goods that are strictly controlled or illegal

    just for context where I am coming from
     
  11. stacheman90

    stacheman90 Initiate (15) Feb 14, 2018 Wisconsin
    Beer Trader

    That is a terrible argument. I've never heard of somebody arrested for possessing somebody else's beer. Nor does it have a name printed on it.
     
  12. Beer_Economicus

    Beer_Economicus Disciple (395) Apr 8, 2017 Indiana
    Beer Trader

    Not to further send this thread down the rabbit hole, but the resale of beer is a market not like many others.

    Selling prescription drugs to someone without prescriptions is illegal, and you are required to be approved to sell them. Buying them without a prescription is also illegal - you don't have a right to purchase them. Selling beer requires a licence, but no licence to buy. You just have to be old enough to consume it. That's not akin to a doctor saying that you have a right to have a controlled substance.

    Also, you can't give prescriptions away, but you can give alcohol away. Again, the very nature of alcohol resale is unlike other resale markets. It's more akin to buying something that is "not marked for individual resale," and then reselling it, turning a profit in the process.

    People tend to use grey-market more for those transactions that are not illegal to purchase, but technically illegal to sell. E.g. Acquiring a beer not through your distributor and then selling it in your bar. Several well known accounts of Minnesota bars bringing in NG beer, reselling it, and getting in trouble.

    I'm not sure it is clearly defined as black or grey, but it seems like it could be called either. What's clear is that it isn't clear.
     
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  13. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Site Editor (7,037) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    Well they both require a license to sell them, have government controls in place around the sale/re-sale of them, etc.

    Another example would be reselling cigarettes - buying them somewhere like NC where they are cheap and reselling them in saw NYC (where they are quite expensive)... Pretty sure that is black market not grey market.
     
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  14. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Site Editor (7,037) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    Are alcohol sales not strictly controlled?
     
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  15. KBlodorn

    KBlodorn Disciple (329) Oct 3, 2014 Ohio
    Beer Trader

    There are plenty of shitlords trying to sell juice machine and the other triples from this week's release for obscene amounts of money OR are trying to trade a bundle along with a few rotationals for big stouts from TG or Wake or whoever. BUT, there are people out there trading JM at cost. I'm sending a Fuzzy to a guy for a JM, Aaalterrr and rotations to meet Fuzzy's $4$ cost. So, those people are out there.
     
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  16. brutalfarce

    brutalfarce Initiate (174) Mar 23, 2018 Connecticut
    Beer Trader

    not to be an instigator but I have already conceded that I may not be right just having the discussion, you seem very concerned about being right so - yes it is 100% a black super illegal and seedy market akin to selling guns and babies where anyone selling beer/guns/babies at anything above retail should be strung up in the county square or at the least put in the stockades
     
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  17. Junior

    Junior Disciple (375) May 23, 2015 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Finally, someone with a reasonable solution.
     
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  18. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Site Editor (7,037) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    <sarcasm>Wow - you come off as completely reasonable in this post...</sarcasm> I'm not concerned with being right, I'm just providing some counterpoints to your points in the discussion - you seem awfully concerned in your posts in arguing that it is not an illegal black market but a semi-legit grey market because the original product was sold legally and it is just a technicality that it is being sold not through approved channels (distributors/direct from brewery).
     
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  19. brutalfarce

    brutalfarce Initiate (174) Mar 23, 2018 Connecticut
    Beer Trader

    maybe that was a bit much but I mean you have to admit if it was as outright illegal that you are making it out to be there would not be so many sites where you can sign up in a matter of minutes and buy beer or other items at will if you are willing to spend a little extra. Now while I agree that it is unfortunate that people are trying to sell certain beers at such exorbitant mark-ups it really boils down to supply and demand which is that base to almost all commerce. Also not to forget how easy it is for none of that to affect your life in the slightest since someone selling Juice Machine cans for $100.00 doesn't affect your ability in the slightest to go the brewery and buy a can for the 5 or so dollars they charge. Cheers
     
  20. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Site Editor (7,037) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    I think it is a matter of enforcement priorities not how illegal it is - I would imagine the cost of the investigation/prosecution of these cases outweighs the potential fines and that most state's alcohol control authority are more focused on policing underage alcohol sales.

    The amount of beers being sold by each of these individuals is just not high enough to overcome those cost thresholds along with it being across state lines. In much the same vein, if you bought a carton of cigarettes in NC for $4 a pack and resold it in NYC for $12 a pack they are probably not going to enforce it - if you did the same thing with a whole van/truck load, that would be a different story.

    I think if any entity (like the mob was bringing in and reselling cigarettes) were to really start pursuing this, we would see enforcement become more common - there have been a couple of cases enforced in PA that made the news recently.

    On the other hand, I believe that DC still has (I know they used to) legal re-selling assuming you are licensed to sell beer: https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...b37ee8eaa61_story.html?utm_term=.429ebba70f91
     
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  21. Janeinma

    Janeinma Devotee (426) May 24, 2009 Massachusetts
    Beer Trader

  22. Janeinma

    Janeinma Devotee (426) May 24, 2009 Massachusetts
    Beer Trader

    ugh people not peiople - I cant see an edit button seconds after posting
     
  23. Leftofthedial

    Leftofthedial Devotee (407) Nov 17, 2011 California
    Beer Trader

    Actually I will absolutely blame these people for trying to make money by reselling beer. There is a time and a place for trying to make money and reselling limited release beers is simply not the right one. The beer community is centered around sharing, making friends, and building relationships. Reselling beer for max profits is in complete self interest and toxic to the community and everything it stands for.

    Let's put it this way: you just finished Thanksgiving dinner with your family and after the meal is over you decide to bust open a bottle of Vanilla Rye and share it with your folks. Would you ask everyone to chip in $30 (or however much the flippers are asking) for the bottle? No you wouldn't. It would be incredibly sleazy and out of line. There are times to try and make money (aka your job), and there are times where trying to make money is simply not appropriate. Times that should be about sharing and not just self-interest. Sure there are resellers on other products and goods (e.g., concert tickets, sneakers). But in my opinion beer is different. These other items don't have the community nor the history of generosity and comradery that goes along with beer. So yes I absolutely blame the sellers.

    I also blame the buyers. Not only are they morons for spending irresponsibly large amounts of money for something that is marginally better than what they can get for $4, they are giving into the greedy sellers, and are destroying the community themselves. Often the buyers are more concerned with looking cool on social media than the quality of the beer they are drinking. Not cool folks.

    And finally I blame the people who aren't buying, aren't selling, but are simply quoting secondary thinking that these absurd values are what the beer is worth or that it dictates what it should trade for. It's a ~$5 IPA that is limited and quite tasty. Trade it for another limited IPA. Trade it for a BA stout. Trade it for a saison. Go after another beer you want, that's cool. Maybe you can meet someone awesome in the process and start exchanging boxes on the regular. But don't go bringing in secondary values, kill all the fun, and imply that the shady and selfish behavior of some should be the standard of how we should go about trading.
     
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