1st time lager question(s)

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Durrell_Ritt, Feb 19, 2021.

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  1. Durrell_Ritt

    Durrell_Ritt Initiate (0) Feb 19, 2021

    Hi All,

    I am trying a lager for the 1st time (10 Lbs. Castle Pilsner Malt, 1 Lbs 3 L. German Acidulated Malt, 2 Lbs 4 L. German Vienna Malt, 6 oz Czech Saaz Hop Pellets, and Saflager S23 Lager Yeast)

    I was planning on pitching at 65F and the garage is at 57F and I was planning on 2 weeks at 57 then 1 day at 65 then to the Keezer at 40 for a month.

    I just made this up based on what I read online so I am open to suggestions :slight_smile:
     
  2. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    IMO, 57F is really too high for a normal lager fermentation, but it's what all the kids are doing these days. And it will make beer.

    Also, if you pitch at 65F and put the fermenter into a 57F garage, your wort/beer probably won't not make it down to 57F during active fermentation. The higher starting temp and the exothermic nature of fermentation will work against that.
     
    Prep8611 and OldBrewer like this.
  3. Durrell_Ritt

    Durrell_Ritt Initiate (0) Feb 19, 2021

    OK, I can cool to 55 before I pitch would that be better?
     
  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    A few comments:

    Pilsner Malt Selection

    Below is something I posted about Castle Pilsner Malt a few years ago:

    “A word of warning for those who choose Castle (Belgian malting company) Pilsner malt. Castle Pilsner will have a lower mash efficiency than other Pilsner malts. This was mentioned by Stan Hieronymus during his presentation of Brew like a Monk at the 2014 NHC. I personally experienced this lower mash efficiency in a Belgian Wit I brewed in the spring of 2014. Castle Pilsner is an excellent malt, you just need to use a bit more of it to achieve your target OG vs. other Pilsner malts.”

    I would not discourage you from using Castle Pilsner Malt but just be aware of this issue.

    Yeast selection/fermentation

    I personally have no experience with S-23 but be aware that the fermentation generates heat so the fermenting beer will get warmer than ambient temperatures (i.e., your fermentation will be > 57 degrees F).

    I attended a presentation at HomebrewCon 2019 given by a Fermentis person and they studied W-34/70 under varying conditions including fermentation temperature. From their study results (both analytical and sensory) this yeast strain will produce clean lagers even at 68 degrees F. Maybe this would be a better choice here.

    Acidulated Malt

    The amount of acidulated malt needed is a function of your brewing water and grain bill; the purpose of the acidulated malt is to achieve a target mash pH value (you want something between 5.2 – 5.6). I personally do not use acidulated malt (I use lactic acid to manage my mash pH value) but the amount you have listed (1 lb.) seems too high to me. I would expect that only a few ounces would be needed to manage the mash pH here. Hopefully some other BA who regularly uses Acidulated Malt could also chime in here. You really need to know the chemistry of your brewing water to come up with a more accurate assessment here.

    Cheers!
     
    premierpro, Merlyn, dmtaylor and 2 others like this.
  5. Durrell_Ritt

    Durrell_Ritt Initiate (0) Feb 19, 2021

    great info (I will perhaps lower the amount of Acidulated Malt to a few ozs) on the Pislner Malt I have 10 lbs (2 lbs extra from the recipe)

    The temp is going to be an issue and I have ordered the yeast so I am kind of SOL for this one as everything will arrive today. I bought a grain mill / cracker from williamsbrewing.com and decided I would try a new beer type as a test. I am not overly fussy with my beers (ones I make). I have a BrewZilla 3.1 and thus far I have had very good luck with the ales I have made. I Could move the fermentor to my shed outside where the temps are about 40-48 most days here in Seattle.
     
  6. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    IMO, yes.
     
  7. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Well, to belabor the point the needed amount is a function of the chemistry of your brewing water and your grain bill. Do you happen to know your brewing water chemistry (e.g., amount of calcium, magnesium, sodium, sulfate, chloride, carbonate)?
    Fermentation temperature is your choice. If you ferment 'warmer' (e.g., 57+ degrees F) you are likely to obtain more esters (e.g., fruity flavors) than you would otherwise but still a subdued amount as compared to ale fermentations. Hopefully some BA who is experienced with S-23 can provide additional input here.

    Cheers!
     
    dmtaylor likes this.
  8. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    You're doing a lot of guesswork when they are aids to help you. One pound of acid is probably 4 times too much, but there is plenty of software to compute ph of mash. I hope you ordered two packets of yeast as one will be a serious underpitch. Six ounces of Saaz is more than I would use in a Belgian Strong Ale. The average of the two temps you quote (57 & 48) would probably be just right. You want to start your diacetly rest (raise temp) before active fermentation is complete, not based on a calendar. . . your hydrometer will tell you when there's a few points left to go.

    You can't swing a dead cat without hitting some brewing software or yeast calculator or water calculator. A lot of them (Brewcipher, Brewer's Friend) are even free. Pick up a copy or buy Beersmith and let that guide you. Download mfg's data sheet on S23 and use their guidelines.
     
  9. Durrell_Ritt

    Durrell_Ritt Initiate (0) Feb 19, 2021

    Started using brewfather with my last IPA. I just got back into brewing in January after a 20 year break. Got the Brewzilla which has made the process so much better for me at least. I also moved to kegging and that has made all the difference. I have brewed about 5 batches in 2 months and have 3 in the keg. Built a keezer and having a lot of fun.
     
    Merlyn, thebriansmaude and Beer_Life like this.
  10. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    Absolutely - the lower the better for lagers (at least down to about 47 F, although Saflager works well above this temperature). I wouldn't go over 55 F if possible.
     
  11. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    If not too late, I urge you to reconsider SafLager 23 in favor of the 34/70 strain. The 34/70 strain is so much more forgiving at the upper margin of the lager fermentation range. I have S23 I think three times and none of them could be considered good lagers. It created a fruitiness that was not lager-like and, for me, a little off-putting. In contrast 34/70 has produced much cleaner beers for me.
     
  12. Durrell_Ritt

    Durrell_Ritt Initiate (0) Feb 19, 2021

    Ok I have a set up in the shed outside where the temperature will be ~45 for the next 10 days (welcome western WA). I think this time I will go with the SaFlager yeast, but next go around I will go with the 34/70 strain.

    Used my new mill and I think it was a bit fine making the sparge a bit slow. ended up at 1.056 at six gallons. Cooled to 52 and pitched the yeast. this temp outside is 48 so I would expect it will be 42 tonight. thanks for all the advise, i will post with the progress.
     
    Merlyn and PapaGoose03 like this.
  13. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Please do.

    Cheers!
     
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