1st time Lagering - HELP!

A couple things that could have helped increase diacetyl in your beer.
1. Your boil wasn't vigorous or maybe long enough(90min) to boil off the DMS from the pilsner malt.

2. It took you too long to chill down your wort helping DMS possibly stay in your wort.

3. Your beer needed a diacetyl rest either because of the strain that you used, or if you pitched your yeast warm and then let the beer cool down, say overnight to get your temp down to 50. (After the beer is fully attenuated ramp the temp up about 5-10 degrees from what your primary ferment temp was.)

I've only done one lager so far but have researched them a little bit. The biggest thing with lagers is pitching enough yeast (mr.malty.com) and pitching cold. Jamil likes to pitch his lagers at like 43-44f and let them ramp up to 48-50f over the course of a couple days and this greatly reduces the precursors to diacetyl.

Hope this helps!

Some more process info/yeast/recipe info will be beneficial to know.

 

Ys, a diacetyl rest (a few days at a higher temp) probably would have helped. If it's objectionable enough, you might try warming up the beer to 65 for a few days and seeing if the remaining yeast might clean it up. I really don't know at this point though. Also, DMS and diacetyl are two different things. (psnydez86 described DMS rather than diacetyl causes in his first two paragraphs above).

 

How do these things that influence DMS feedback on diacetyl? I don't think they do in any substantial way. DMS and diacetyl are two different issues.

This would probably have helped. I think when the OP tasted his beer, it was not yet finished. I'm not sure why he didn't taste diacetyl at the time, but it does increase before it decreases. Ramping the temps up would encourage the beer to finish properly. There are bacterial infections that can produce diacetyl. They sound like a nightmare. Fortunately, infections that lead to off-flavors are probably pretty rare. I'm voting for the need for yeast cleanup as the cause.

What to do? Since the beer is in bottles, I think the best thing for the OP to do is to keep the bottles in a warm environment to encourage bottle priming. Those yeast that do the priming may finish the DMS off. I would keep it at ~70 for three weeks and taste a bottle. I'd hold it for another week and taste another bottle. Two weeks in a row w/o diacetyl probably means you are OK and can serve the beer w/o shame - congrats - you made your first lager. FWIW, I have had yeast take care of diacetyl in bottles before, but it is better to do these things in the fermenter, where the option of adding more yeast for cleanup can be pursued if necessary.

 

I think your beer will be fine, let these bottles carb at 64 F for 3 weeks, yeast will clean dyacetil up. Maybe you will need to lager this beer a bit longer, nothing to be worried.

 

It is a lager, so it needs more time to clean up, or the OP can do a search on Krausening the beer to clean it up.

DMS is caused by compounds from the malt, or an infection. It smells like creamed corn.

Diacetyl is caused by a compound from the yeast, and is clean up by the yeast if you give them the right conditions and time. I smells like butter or butterscotch and and can cause a slick sensation on the the tongue.

Just pointing out that these are two different compounds with two different sources, and two different flavor/aromas.

 

It is not hard to do a diacetyl rest. I do a rest with every lager I brew. When your air lock is producing 1 bubble every 15-20 seconds warm your fermenter to 66-68 degrees for a couple of days. I have not had diacetyl issues with this approach. Hopefully your bottle conditioning will clean up this batch. Take care.

 

Not sure why I was refrencing DMS? I think I should have had a cup of coffee prior to my early Am response.

 

Is it carbonated, that will take the compound into the aroma.

Sometimes I pick up diacetyl from the yeast on the first pour from the keg, if the beer is cloudy from the yeast. Once the beer is bright, no flavor for me, and the wife who is more sensitive says it is fine.

 

The OP stated: “Before transferring it to secondary/lagering I sampled and it tasted on track.” So, I take it from this statement that after 3 weeks of primary (at 50°F) there was not taste of diacetyl (butter).

It is a bit strange that the taste of diacetyl appeared at bottling time (after 6 weeks of lagering at 35°F). If ‘excess’ diacetyl was produced during the primary I would really have expected that this could be tasted at the end of week 3.

As others have mentioned, since you are bottle conditioning there is indeed a chance that the yeast will ‘clean up’ any diacetyl which is present. The addition of priming sugar and bottling is a genuine secondary fermentation. The primary reason that we bottle condition (genuine secondary fermentation) is for the production of CO2 (carbonation) but there will still be some other yeast activity in the bottle beyond just CO2 production. Hopefully for the OP part of that yeast activity will be diacetyl reduction. I think that Peter provided good advice of: “I would keep it at ~70 for three weeks and taste a bottle. I'd hold it for another week and taste another bottle. Two weeks in a row w/o diacetyl probably means you are OK …” So, be patient and keep those bottles warm (e.g., 70°F) to encourage yeast activity.

So, there has been some discussion about conducting a diacetyl rest towards the end of primary fermentation. I have homebrewed many lagers (70+ batches) and I have never conducted a diacetyl rest for any of my lagers (using over 10 different strains of lager yeasts). I have never experienced any noticeable diacetyl and I am very sensitive to diacetyl. There is no denying that conducting a diacetyl rest is ‘cheap’ insurance for those that want to make this effort.

Sometimes people will suggest that you taste the beer towards the end of the primary and if you detect diacetyl, then conduct a diacetyl rest. It would seem that this practice would not ‘work’ for the OP since he didn’t detect any diacetyl at the end of his primary.

Cheers!

 

Odd question... You say you tasted it at bottling. Had you already added the priming sugar? I ask because I can sometimes detect what seems to be a butterscotch flavor when I add sugar to things, and remember more than once tasting it it primed but not yet carbonated beer.

In my case, it was just something to do with the sugars rather than actual diacetyl. In your case, it's hard to say whether it's diacetyl or not. Of course, if you hadn't yet added the sugar, this whole post is moot.