2015 BJCP Style Guidelines Released

Evan Rail too -- isn't Ron's participation sort of like defecting to the other side?

 

Jeff,

I am glad that Ron decided to participate. I had a conversation with him after the Gordon Strong presentation on the draft BJCP style guidelines (NHC 2014). I asked him: are you going to send comments about the draft style guidelines? He responded: they don't want to hear my comments. I finished up with: you really should participate and send comments.

Cheers!

 

Had that Gordon Strong 'round my house. Nice bloke.

I was asked for comments and I gave them. Being an arse and refusing to help wouldn't have made the guidelines any better.

Huge improvement in the Czech styles. I like to think I had some influence there.

I stopped thinking of the BJCP as the Dark Side long ago. Come to think of it, I don't think of anyone as the Dark Side anymore. Not even Watney.

 

I spoke to Gordon later at the NHC. He asked for my comments and I gave them.

 

I am glad that you did!

Cheers!

 

So are tests being amended to reflect these changes from here on out?

 

interesting...I'm not a big saison fan, so haven't really been following all this news. So is the Brett in DuPont similar to like Brett in wine. It's there, but just not apparent...or is it actually a part of the yeast profile? I just never heard of DuPont strain as having Brett...but the two-stage fermentation has always led me to think there was like two-strains...I always figured it was a wine yeast though.

 

It seems to be like Brett in wine, it is there but it doesn't show off like it does in Geueze or Orval.

 

Pale Commonwealth Beer feels like a forced, but what do I know?

 

The standard should be "could I drink 5 or 6 liters of this?"

 

Saw that and felt yours and Evan's influence all over it.

 

I have that book, so I quickly re-read the historical Saison parts last night. I'm not getting the connection with lambic, other than mixed fermentations, resulting in eventual souring. But that would be true of virtually every beer of the time, I would guess. What in particular led you to say that most historical evidence shows saisons were pretty much just very young lambic? I may well have missed something.

One thing I (re)noticed about Farmhouse Ales was a lack of much citing of original sources. When you said historical evidence, I was hoping there might be something solid. Is there another source of historic saison information that you know of?

 

that's the only book I'm really aware of concerning saisons/farmhouse ales and most seem to consider it the definitive repository of historical info on them. I'll have to grab my copy when I get home tonight but I know there is a part in it where Phil (or the co-author) said those early saisons were pretty much just young lambics.

 

Exactly. I don'tunderstand the love of this book.

 

Randy Mosher and I both did a bit of digging into the history of Saison a few years back trying to discover something more concrete. The only mention he was able to dig up was from an 1851 book on belgian brewing that said a beer brewed "en saison" was usually double strength and was only applied to a wheat/oat beer of low gravity from around Liege. Nothing in the other 18th century reference. DeClerck - the guy you'd think would be mentioning them since he literally wrote the book - doesn't mention them at all.

In truth, all the lovely tales we know of Saison are likely just that - tales promulgated through the organ of Michael Jackson from romantic stories told by Belgian brewers. Was there farmhouse brewing? Sure, but it wasn't, near as I can tell, called Saison. (None of this is terribly surprising since MJ was obsessed with categorizing and quantifying even in face of local treatment of beers.)

As for Brett in Saison and the BJCP guidelines, my thoughts are these: the BJCP probably separated the brett categorization to avoid heavy Brett beers in the middle of a flight. I'd have been fine if they put in a stipulation that any Brett is to be a subtle addition and not the overriding characteristic. Also, I tend to think modern brewers usually use Brett as a crutch, producing a funky beer that overdoes it when compared to Dupont or even Fantome. I've had way, way too many "Brett Saisons" that are sweet and fail to capture the magical qualities of a Saison and substitute the farm character for saison character. Had a few that do it right, to my way of thinking, but those are mystical magical unicorns.

 

are there other books out there that deal with these beers? I'd love to check them out

 

The Beers of Wallonia is referenced in the Oxford Companion to Beer in the Saison entry that was written by Markowski.

http://www.amazon.com/Beers-Walloni...=UTF8&qid=1431038982&sr=1-1&keywords=wallonia

I haven't read it.

 

I remember reading that- don't remember anything specific about it other than the same stories. Should see if I still have it on the shelf.

 

I'm sure we'll all get used to the new guidelines if we are entering homebrews in competitions...however fucked up they may seem at the present...it's only beer : )