3724 belgian/stuck help

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Jimbob-gbr, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. Jimbob-gbr

    Jimbob-gbr Initiate (72) Apr 18, 2017 Nebraska

    10 days ago I brewed up a beer using 3724 Belgian saison yeast that I washed from a batch over the summer. It was my first time washing yeast and all seamed to go well.
    Well a few days before this batch I got a starter going with my washed yeast. It started bubbling the next day. I brewed then pitch. The next day it was bubbling away like normal. I checked the gravity today and but it on forage wild plums and the gravity was only 1.024. The og was 1.040. Then past week got cold out here in Nebraska. I've heard of this yeast getting stuck. I was wondering what I could do to get it going again short of making it 80 degrees in my house. Maybe grab some us05 to finish, or stir it a couple times. Maybe a space heater in my bathroom for a couple days. Any suggestions help, thanks
     
  2. minderbender

    minderbender Initiate (187) Jan 18, 2009 New York

    Just to rule one possibility out, have you recently switched from using a hydrometer to a refractometer? I ask because a refractometer will give high readings for final gravity and you have to use a calculator to determine the actual final gravity. Of course you'd know this if you had been using a refractometer before, but there's a first time for everything, so I thought I'd ask.
     
    MrOH, GormBrewhouse and Jimbob-gbr like this.
  3. Jimbob-gbr

    Jimbob-gbr Initiate (72) Apr 18, 2017 Nebraska

    Nope. Hydrometer.
     
  4. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,469) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania

    Just be patient. It will finish.
     
  5. Prep8611

    Prep8611 Aspirant (250) Aug 22, 2014 New Jersey

    Ya give it a week or two it will finish.
     
    MrOH, GormBrewhouse and Jimbob-gbr like this.
  6. Supergenious

    Supergenious Disciple (343) May 9, 2011 Michigan

    Yeah, be patient. In my experience 3724 usually takes around 5 weeks to finish. Also, I find that a constant temperature is helpful. I’ve never read any to support this theory, but the only time I had trouble with this yeast was when I had poor temp control and the ambient temperature fluctuated quite a bit. And yes, warm temperatures help.
     
  7. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,712) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Premium

    Yup, just give it time.

    It has been my experience that the beers I brewed with 3724 did reach my expected FG but patience is key here.

    I have not brewed with 3724 in several years because the fact that it gets stuck (or slows down if you prefer that terminology) is a pain in the ass IMO.

    Cheers!
     
  8. Jimbob-gbr

    Jimbob-gbr Initiate (72) Apr 18, 2017 Nebraska

    I'll wait it out. I've only used it once and it was a couple months ago and consistently hot. Then the gravity was down in a week. It worked fast.
     
    GormBrewhouse likes this.
  9. epk

    epk Initiate (164) Jun 10, 2008 New Jersey

    Yep, if you can't heat it up, you'll just have to wait. And even if you can heat it up, you'll probably be waiting anyway - last time I used it earlier this year on a petite saison that started at 1048, it was down to 1020 in a week and then it took another four or five to get down to 1.005, even after raising the temps into the 80s up to 90. Next time I use it, I think I will just copitch with 3711.
     
  10. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Moderator (1,250) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Premium

    All this... 3724 is used for is vastly superior flavor, not for it's quick turn around. As far as co-pitching goes, you can always co-pitch WY3724, WLP565, WLP566, and a Brett C/A culture, which will get you much closer to a full Dupont flavor.
     
    Yalc and EvenMoreJesus like this.
  11. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,469) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania

    I've never understood people who go to 3711 over 3724 just because it's faster, even while acknowledging that 3724 makes a better saison. (I'm not talking about folks who genuinely prefer the flavors from 3711, misguided though they may be.) If I just wanted a fast saison, I'd go to the grocery store.
     
    Yalc, Witherby, SFACRKnight and 3 others like this.
  12. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,712) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Premium

    There are other strains (or blends) that produce flavorful Saison beers that don't take a month+ to complete primary fermentation.

    Spoiler alert: in another month or so I will be posting more on this topic (re: a Saison that I brewed this past summer).

    Cheers!
     
    jbakajust1 likes this.
  13. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Moderator (1,250) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Premium

    I agree. I have been using my Nectarine Blossom blend for all my Belgian/Saison ferments for the past year+ now. Only takes 1-2 weeks to finish. But I will always compare my flavors to Dupont.
     
    Prep8611 and JackHorzempa like this.
  14. Jimbob-gbr

    Jimbob-gbr Initiate (72) Apr 18, 2017 Nebraska

    Thanks everyone for responding. The beer I made this time I had a schedule for that I make at this time every year. I switched it up to this yeast from wb-06 because of better flavors. It might also explain why some of the beers I brewed last time with it last time are overcarbonated, might not have been completely finished then finished in the bottles.
    This beer I put wild plums in the secondary and they are really tart in a good way. I will use this yeast again for other beers were I have more time to let it finish up.
     
  15. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Meyvn (1,243) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado

    If Belgian saison is treated right she won't hesitate either...
     
    EvenMoreJesus and jbakajust1 like this.
  16. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,712) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Premium

    I can report that for one batch where I used 3724, I made a 2 liter starter, I fermented hot (greater than 80 degrees F), fermented 'open' (i.e, no airlock) and that batch still took over a month to reach its FG.

    There are other Saison yeast strains that produce flavorful beers and they are non-fussy (i.e., reach FG is 2 weeks or less).

    Feel free to use 3724, I have moved on.

    Cheers!
     
  17. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Meyvn (1,243) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado

    I have used Belgian no less than 10 times, no stall.
     
    EvenMoreJesus likes this.
  18. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (869) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    Never had an issue with it myself, either.
     
    SFACRKnight likes this.
  19. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,712) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Premium

    Below is how Wyeast describes 3724 on their website (with emphasis in bold by me):

    “This strain is the classic farmhouse ale yeast. A traditional yeast that is spicy with complex aromatics, including bubble gum. It is very tart and dry on the palate with a mild fruitiness. Expect a crisp, mildly acidic finish that will benefit from elevated fermentation temperatures. This strain is notorious for a rapid and vigorous start to fermentation, only to stick around 1.035 S.G. Fermentation will finish, given time and warm temperatures. Warm fermentation temperatures, at least 90°F (32°C), or the use of a secondary strain can accelerate attenuation.”

    It is fortunate for you that this strain has not “stuck” for you but obviously this is an issue with this strain or otherwise Wyeast would not have the above verbiage in their description for this yeast strain.

    Cheers!
     
    Jimbob-gbr likes this.
  20. Jimbob-gbr

    Jimbob-gbr Initiate (72) Apr 18, 2017 Nebraska

    Well I looked on wyeast site and it says it can stall as well and the temp range is 70-95. I know my house has been in the 60s a good portion of the last 2 weeks as not wanting to turn heat on/up yet.
    I put it room with heater yesterday then got home from work today and my lovely wife had the heat on and the house over 70. There is now activity starting in airlock.
    I'm not that experienced of a brewer but have never had a beer stall out on me yet. I've had a fruit wine stall for a couple monthes but that was at high abv. I imagine it will happen again
     
    riptorn likes this.
  21. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Meyvn (1,243) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado

    I know the notoriety of the strain, but it makes me wonder what am I doing that is preventing the stall. I have open fermented, closed fermented, used temp control, and let it ride with no changes in attenuation. I will say ramping the temp artificially nets a phenol profile I dislike.
     
    riptorn likes this.
  22. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,712) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Premium

    If you ever divine your 'technique' here you should relate it to Wyeast. I would strongly suspect that their sales of 3724 would increase if they could share your 'tip' here.

    As it stands right now I personally refuse to purchase 3724 despite the aspect that it creates a tasty Saison beer. I obtain my tasty Saison beers using other non-fussy strains.

    Cheers!
     
  23. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,712) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Premium

    The 'good news' is that if you use other beer yeast strains you likely will never have to be concerned about a 'stuck' fermentation.

    Cheers!
     
  24. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,469) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania

    The 'good news' is that 3724 makes saison that is tastier than that made with any single 'non-fussy' strain. BrewBetty fact.
     
    jbakajust1, wspscott and SFACRKnight like this.
  25. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,755) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Premium

    On the topic of alternate yeast strains, check out Imperial's Rustic strain (same as WY3726, supposedly). I am a big fan of 3724, but I very much enjoy the beer I made with Rustic, and it was faster than 3724. But I also say just give 3724 more time.
     
  26. wspscott

    wspscott Champion (855) May 25, 2006 Kentucky

    FWIW, I think a lot of the stories of 3724 stalling is are likely due to under-pitching. I'm not pointing that finger at anyone here, but Wyeast mentioning "notoriety" is based on lots of homebrewers complaining but not necessarily following "best procedures".
     
    VikeMan likes this.
  27. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,469) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania

    Yeast nutrients, appropriate pitch rate, and oxygenation with pure O2 have yielded no stalls for me.
     
    wspscott, jbakajust1 and Witherby like this.
  28. Jimbob-gbr

    Jimbob-gbr Initiate (72) Apr 18, 2017 Nebraska

    If anyone cares I checked the gravity over the weekend 3 weeks after brewing and it's down to 1.008. Seen some tiny bubbles when I was taking reading. We're almost there.

    Thanks for help everyone