A good Nugget Nectar clone?

This is a tough beer to clone considering the malt complexity and Troegs being all hush-hush and/or ambiguous with any particular details. A couple people believe the base is primarily Vienna, but I see more logic in it being mostly Pilsener. Here's a rough stab at it. Alter whatever makes more sense to you...

90 minute boil
5 gallons in primary
149 F, 90 minute mash
1.069 / 1.013
14 SRM

62% Weyermann Pils Malt
24% Weyermann Vienna
8% Weyermann Munich 10L
4% Castle Caravienne
2% Castle Chocolate Malt (for a color adjustment)

For 93 IBUs and 11 oz. total hops:

Warrior @ 90 (30-32 IBUs)
Nugget @ 45 (30-32 IBUs)
Simcoe @ 30 (30-32 IBUs)
3.50 oz. mixed Tomahawk, Nugget, Palisade @ 30 min hopstand
5.25 oz. mixed Tomahawk, Nugget, Simcoe @ two-stage 10 day dryhop

Wyeast 1272 Starter @ 81% Attenuation

In 2013, NN is hoppier and drier, albeit less fruity, with more of a dank focus of Tomahawk. The dankness cuts through the bitter grapefruit and floral orange citrus of Warrior and Nugget, followed by fresh pine sap of Simcoe, and then some fruity Palisade on the backend.

 

According to Troegs, the NN malt bill consists only of Pilsner, Vienna, and Munich. It's what they publish, and I've heard it from an employee, and IIRC, from one of the brothers several years ago. Do you have reason to doubt this?

 

Nope. But they use a bit of Crystal and Chocolate in Troegs Hopback Amber, and that's only 10 SRM. It kind of reminds me of a baby NN with less malt character and a different hop profile. I never claimed my above attempt was 100% accurate. I said to alter whatever makes sense to you.

FWIW, there are many inconsistencies and future amendments going on all the time in a lot of the supposedly accurate clone recipes and clone attempts out there...

For instance, some Amarillo is said to be in Pliny the Elder. Crystal hops are a part of the Tricerahop dryhop yet they don't report this. Stone IPA actually uses WLP007 now, and not WLP002. Heady Topper claims 6 American hops are used and they're all late additions. But now, people are saying it's bittered with a decent amount of NZ hop extract to attain 100+ IBUs before any late additions are even added.

 

FWIW Stone doesn't use either, although the WLP007 and WLP002 are suggested for clones.

http://blog.stonebrew.com/index.php/all-about-our-yeast-part-one/

 

FWIW, you can't buy WLP5036. This is Stone's private yeast. It seems to be derived from an English strain, but attenuates and flocs rather well. So the closest thing we could compare it to as homebrewers is a mixture of WLP007 and WLP090... or for ease, just WLP007.

 

Who says there is chocolate in Hopback?

 

troegs gave out the recipe in BYO about a year and a half ago. it could be in the recipe section on the site

 

Agreed that WLP007 or WLP007/WLP090 would be the best approximations. Your previous statement seemed to imply Stone was using WLP007, which is why I commented as I did.

 

I don't remember that. Do you know what issue?

 

These two threads have all the info (Including a post from a BYO editor regarding the original published clone recipe that had typos or mistakes):

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/oct-2011-byo-nugget-nectar-clone-og-doesnt-add-up-273597/
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/nugget-nectar-recipe-byo-290885/

 

Using 80% Vienna + 20% mixed Pilsener & Munich 10L, with no specialty grains like crystal or chocolate, would prove rather difficult to reach 14-15 SRM, even with an extended boil. You might say they use approx. 40-60% Munich 20L, but given how the hops shine and how the flavor of Munich does not, I'll call BS. If this were true, it would shift the focus of the grist to mostly Munich 20L and completely shatter the 80% Vienna ideaology that you heard and initially believed. Have you ever tried to use that much Munich, especially dark Munich, in a hoppy beer? It would be awful. If dark Munich is used instead of light Munich, then it would be just a dash at 3-5%. This is still not enough to achieve the target SRM.

 

According to BYO, the recipe is Dark Munich (30L), Vienna, & Pilsner malt (19.4%, 19.4%, 61.3%, respectively). If you put in the amounts they suggest (9.5 lbs pilsner, 3 lbs Vienna, 3 lbs Dark Munich @ 65% efficiency) and select a 90 minute boil in Beersmith you get an SRM of 12.5 (ABV of 7.5%), which is right in line with the beer (Straw/Orange is listed on Troegs site).

I do not know if this recipe comes direct from Troeg's, but regardless, the same grist on different systems can produce very different results.

 

- Who said or 'initially believed' 80% Vienna?
- I have enjoyed many Nugget Nectars, and I haven't seen one yet as dark as 14 SRM.

 

Hey Vike, you said, "According to Troegs, the NN malt bill consists only of Pilsner, Vienna, and Munich"... I kinda figured you knew about the claims going around that the bros. said the recipe was 80% Vienna.

@barf, there are numerous BYO recipes floating around for this beer. They seem to change every 6 months. I kinda take what they say in stride. There is no definitive recipe. So many amendments and corrections.

I'll believe as low as 13 as high as 15 SRM. Still, achieving 12 SRM with a grist low in dark Munich and no crystal and choc malt is quite difficult.

 

I haven't brewed it yet, but the grain bill in my NN clone recipe is:

50% pilsner
31.3% munich (20L)
18.8% vienna
SRM 11.4

 

The troegs brothers say 80% Vienna malt in the Sunday session episode in 2011 around the 1hour 32 minute mark.