? about Westmalle yeast fermentation schedule

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by ruttroshaggy, Apr 30, 2017.

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  1. ruttroshaggy

    ruttroshaggy Initiate (0) Dec 3, 2012 Washington

    I'm a noob on my 3rd all grain batch. I screwed up the first 2 batches due to poor sparging amongst other things, live and learn. I've had a Belgian Pale in the primary with Westmalle yeast (3787/530) at 68 for about 4 days. For the first 3 days or so the fermentation was crazy. It's now died down considerably. I've read on the almighty internets that many people like to bring up the temp of this yeast to finish off fermentation with trippels and BSDAs. Is this necessary with a pale? I'd prefer to leave it alone and let the yeast do its thing as long as there's no worry of it stalling at 68. I'd rather not get neurotic with gravity readings either. I plan on letting this sit in primary for about a month before bottling, no secondary. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
     
  2. ruttroshaggy

    ruttroshaggy Initiate (0) Dec 3, 2012 Washington

    Also, does finishing off fermentation at a higher temp have much affect on flavor or has flavor been mostly locked in when fermentation has nearly completed? Hope that question makes sense.
     
  3. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    68F is fine for the this strain.

    You can certainly increase the temperature toward the end to finish it faster if you want. The stage for the final fusel/ester profile was set early in the fermentation, which is why early fermentation temperatures are much more important than later temps.
     
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  4. ruttroshaggy

    ruttroshaggy Initiate (0) Dec 3, 2012 Washington

    Thanks for the info. This is what I was hoping to hear as I really just want to let it sit and see what happens. I'm in no rush so I'll leave it alone.
     
  5. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    No harm in warming it up. In fact I highly recommend it, to avoid the dreaded stall. Also I recommend patience. Fermentation may continue very very slowly over about 3 weeks.

    Cheers.
     
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  6. ruttroshaggy

    ruttroshaggy Initiate (0) Dec 3, 2012 Washington

    Thanks for the feedback. I've read that the Westmalle yeast can be especially slow finishing the job so I'm prepared to be patient and recognize that airlock OCD is not necessary.

    How do different temperatures affect the beer in primary after fermentation is completed? If I understand correctly, lower temps will assist with clarity. Are there any other benefits/results of lower temp? What about the affects prolonged primary at the higher end of the yeast's tolerance?

    Sorry if these are noob questions easily found elsewhere. I've looked plenty but haven't found answers all in one place.
     
  7. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    If you still have any diactetyl or acetaldehyde in your beer, higher temps will cause the yeast to clean them up faster. Higher temps will also cause faster carbonation (if bottling) and faster staling. Most chemical/biochemical processes relevant to brewing happen faster at higher temps.

    I don't see how. Though really cold temps (i.e. cold crashing) will cause proteins to clump with polyphenols and fall out of suspension faster.

    Yeast can tolerate higher temperatures during fermentation than you would ever want to use. They love high temps (within reason) as long as there is food. The temperature ranges recommended by yeast manufacturers are intended to produce good beer, which is not exactly the same as producing the best yeast health.
     
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  8. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    I wouldn't raise the temperature unless guided by data or past experiences. I'm not sure what you would consider neurotic, but I typically check gravity prior to pitching yeast and a couple time or so thereafter, maybe around 1 week to make sure everything has more or less followed the expected course, and then closer to when I think I am ready to bottle. While gravity checks may seem neurotic, they also give you an opportunity to taste what the beer is doing, which can help you make decisions about whether it is ready to package. Even in the absence of specific gravity data, this info can be very helpful.

    FWIW, ,my own past experiences lead me to think that this strain will not stall at 68 degrees. That's pretty typical for my fermentations.
     
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  9. FeDUBBELFIST

    FeDUBBELFIST Pooh-Bah (1,765) Oct 31, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I've had good experiences with elevated temps with Westmalle. I've pushed it to 78 and it is still pretty clean. On the other hand, I've gone mid 60s before and didn't get enough Belgian character for my liking. Hardly any actually.
     
  10. ruttroshaggy

    ruttroshaggy Initiate (0) Dec 3, 2012 Washington

    Thanks for the responses, all have been very helpful.
     
  11. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    My comment wasn't meant as a warning against raising the temp. Just that he's come this far and he doesn't have much experience to rely on, so he ought to stay the course to build that experience. When he is done, he will know what to expect from this beer at 68 F.

    FWIW, I don't see changing the temp as helping or hurting. At this point, he won't get much yeast character out of raising the temp, and he shouldn't need to raise it to get the yeast to finish.

    No telling what he's going to like and how it compares to what you like, but he is doing a Belgian pale ale, which, at least according to old BJCP guidelines, does not have a lot of the fruity and phenolic characters of the Trappist beers. Of course, others will tell you there is no such thing as a Belgian pale ale style - people should brew what you like.
     
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  12. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    Hmmm, you don't sound like a new brewer . . .
    These are very good questions. Yeast health and ferm temps are major factors in making good beer.

    FWIW, I ferm my Westmalle a little higher, typically start around 72 and boost it to 73 on day 2, then 74 on day three . . . then hold it there, never really had a stalling problem. Typically I go 2½ weeks in primary, then secondary to a keg. IMO, four weeks in primary is pushing it (I'm guessing you have an OG of ~1.050).

    Regarding later temps; I hold my low-mid 70s while in primary, no need to raise it higher to keep the yeast working. What I always try to avoid is rapidly lowering the temp as the yeasties seem to really hate this. So if you want to lower your temp, suggest dropping only 1 or 2 degrees a day (for all strains). Of course when you cold crash you drop immediately cause the yeast are out of the ball game. Depending on the strain, cc'ing usually gives a clarity improvement. If you plan on fining, do it when it's cold. A keg/keezer is ideal for this step.

    As stated, don't be afraid to take gravity reading along the way. Have your equipment ready (sanitized) and work quickly . . . I've never had a problem with this step. Keep notes on SG and tastings as you measure. It helps to keep notes on apparent attenuation/mash-temp for each strain you use.

    Here's a good read on what's going on with those little yeast-buggers:
    https://www.morebeer.com/articles/conditioning
     
  13. ruttroshaggy

    ruttroshaggy Initiate (0) Dec 3, 2012 Washington

  14. epk

    epk Pundit (849) Jun 10, 2008 New Jersey

    I'm going to need OP to submit a pic of yeast rafts and ask if his batch is infected, stat. :stuck_out_tongue:
     
  15. ruttroshaggy

    ruttroshaggy Initiate (0) Dec 3, 2012 Washington

    I'm now on my second batch using 3787. This one's a dubbel. I pitched last night at 67 and today it was chugging along at 76-77. I didn't think it would go this fast so I didn't bother to set my regulator. I now have it set so the temp won't go any higher for now. Are there typically any consequences to allowing the temp to rise that fast or is that OK with this yeast? BLAM states that the monks allow this yeast go up to the mid-80s but it doesn't say how long they wait, if at all, to let it go.
     
  16. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I have a Dubbel right now in my primary but I kept the fermentation to 72-73 degrees. Please report back on how your beer turns out. A potential risk with higher fermentation temperatures is the development of higher alcohols (fusel oils) but maybe 3787 will not do this at the temperatures you reported?

    Cheers!
     
  17. ruttroshaggy

    ruttroshaggy Initiate (0) Dec 3, 2012 Washington

    Will do. I'll post about the progress of both the pale and the dubbel. I put the pale in secondary yesterday, nothing exciting to report there. I put the dubbel on the pale's yeast cake at about 11pm last night. It was going crazy when I checked on it at 10 this morning.
     
  18. ruttroshaggy

    ruttroshaggy Initiate (0) Dec 3, 2012 Washington

    Yup, I apparently screwed this one up. My OG was way short which made me realize I forgot the D-180. So I added it to the primary. Now 4 days later my gravity is at 1.006 when I was shooting for 1.015. I'll probably do some easier recipes next and revisit Belgian style beers when I have more experience.
     
  19. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Adding the D-180 to the primary instead of the boil wouldn't cause the final gravity to be 1.006 instead of 1.015 (and probably didn't hurt anything else either). Yeast strain and the overall fermentability of the wort are the factors that drive the attenuation.
     
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