Accidental brett saison?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by drgarage, Aug 3, 2012.

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  1. drgarage

    drgarage Initiate (0) Aug 19, 2008 California

    OK, this is a weird one. I made a batch of a very simple American Pale in March that I was quite happy with. Nice, clear, good hops, totally refreshing. I've kept a few bottles around over the ensuing months and open them once in awhile. Here's what's interesting: the last three bottles have all basically been really nice saisons, some with a little bit of brett to really dry them out. It tastes a lot like a Rayon Vert clone. All of the bottles involved were carefully cleaned and sanitized, and none of them has ever held either a brett beer or a saison. Thoughts on how I got this (totally exciting!) infection? Could it just be from the air? The fact that I drink sours and brett beers? If I want to recreate this effect, should I just try to harvest the yeast from one of these bottles?

    Just wondering if anyone has similar experiences and thoughts on how to capitalize on a happy accident -- this is easily my favorite beer, and I don't know how I made it.
     
    #1 drgarage, Aug 3, 2012
  2. JebediahScooter

    JebediahScooter Initiate (0) Sep 5, 2010 Vermont

    Huh, interesting. Glad the results were to your liking! As for harvesting dregs from sour beers, yes, you can do that. I haven't tried it yet because I don't have space for keeping carboys for sour beers around for extended periods, but I've been reading up on it for when I do have space. This blog rocks:

    http://www.themadfermentationist.com/ -- He does a lot on sour beers, but he also brews regular stuff, too. Here's his page on harvesting dregs:

    http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2010/06/harvesting-sour-beer-bottle-dregs.html
     
    #2 JebediahScooter, Aug 3, 2012
  3. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    I don't have any answers on how it got there, but I would personally sanitize each bottle that I go to open, pour slow, then flame the tip and culture the yeast from the next bottle that has that nice character. Step it up and see what you get from a 1 gallon test batch. If it comes out nice, step that up to 5 gallons of the same recipe your drinking now, if it fails, try another bottle. If they turn out bad, enjoy what you have. If it turns out like you have now, then you've got 5 gallons.

    I culture yeast a lot, I have local u-pick strawberry as well as 2 kinds of cherries from trees near my house going right now, and I am about to add blackberries from the backyard, apples, plums, pears, and more blackberries from a bike path near by. I am going to bottle a Lambic I did with yeast cultured from the skins of blackberries from my backyard last year. I'm all for culturing your own wild strains. Get it.
     
    #3 jbakajust1, Aug 3, 2012
  4. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    I've had some beers go sour on me. I'd first point a finger at my auto siphon. I usually don't do a great job of cleaning it. It's a PITA. My beers always start out just fine, and usually stay fine, but small errors over time can make a big difference.

    I'd avoid reusing your yeast, unless you want to start out with a saison. I think you'll be surprised to see that your lacto will multiply. To recreate it you might have a better chance with some open-fermentation techniques. If you reuse the bottles for other beers, I'd be careful and make sure you clean them 2x as well as you normally do.
     
    #4 inchrisin, Aug 3, 2012
  5. drgarage

    drgarage Initiate (0) Aug 19, 2008 California

    Thanks for the links -- Mad Fermentationist rocks. I'm definitely going to harvest dregs from the next one of these bottles I open that hits the profile -- I would love to have this as an accessible recipe long term (all caveats about yeast mutations, etc. noted). It's just bizarre -- the least cloudy saison I've ever tasted.
     
    #5 drgarage, Aug 3, 2012
  6. drgarage

    drgarage Initiate (0) Aug 19, 2008 California

    I understood and am down for everything you said except "flame the tip". A little help? I'd love to culture the local wild yeast -- San Francisco is clearly great for it (see: sourdough bread).
     
    #6 drgarage, Aug 3, 2012
  7. drgarage

    drgarage Initiate (0) Aug 19, 2008 California

    Great advice. The autosiphon makes perfect sense. I've definitely seen reused bottles cause trouble, especially (unsurprisingly) previous sours, but these saison bottles are all former IPAs and have been brewed in multiple times previously. Interesting point about lacto, especially because neither of these is sour, just funky, peppery and dry. Who knows where the next generations would head...
     
    #7 drgarage, Aug 3, 2012
  8. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    If you try to use some dreggs, let us know how it comes out. That might be exciting if you add them in past high-krausen.
     
    #8 inchrisin, Aug 4, 2012
  9. drgarage

    drgarage Initiate (0) Aug 19, 2008 California

    Will do for sure. I have a good friend I brew with. We'll definitely add this late as a secondary fermentation if I open the right bottle at the right time...
     
    #9 drgarage, Aug 4, 2012
  10. Homebrew42

    Homebrew42 Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2006 New York

    How do you know it's Brett and not one of the dozens of other organsims floating around? Everyone assumes that every infection is brett because it's the one they're most familiar with, but really it could be any number of organisms.
     
    #10 Homebrew42, Aug 4, 2012
  11. drgarage

    drgarage Initiate (0) Aug 19, 2008 California

    I don't know that it's Brett. That's an excellent point. I do have a lot of experience with Brett, so that's why I assume that's what it is -- sustained, hyper-drying funkiness, very akin to Rayon Vert. It's definitely not lacto, pedio, or acetobacter. Other than that, it could be anything.
     
    #11 drgarage, Aug 4, 2012
  12. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    After you pop put a lighter flame over the edge of the bottle lip, and after you pour and your bottle is setting upright on the counter with nothing but dregs left, flame again
     
    #12 jbakajust1, Aug 4, 2012
  13. drgarage

    drgarage Initiate (0) Aug 19, 2008 California

    Got it, thanks.
     
    #13 drgarage, Aug 4, 2012
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