Adjunct Misinformation

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by deleted_user_1007501, Dec 2, 2019.

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  1. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    Sure, the solution here is to ‘invent’ new words!?!:confused:

    If Volkswagen can sell cars with fahrvergnügen why not call AAL beers something else with a ‘fancy’ German word.:wink:

    Cheers!
     
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  2. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
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    The Elsevier's Dictionary of Barley, Malting and Brewing in Six Languages [1961] from the European Brewery Convention says:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  3. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
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    Jack, those sources do not answer the question I asked. Perhaps I have not asked it clearly enough, because while I understand your point, you do not seem to see why I disagree with it. I am not doubting the knowledge of experts; I am questioning authority. That is obviously a failure on my part, not yours, so please forgive the length of the following explanation.

    The word "adjunct" predates its use in brewing (in any context), significantly in fact. At some point, the brewing industry began using it to describe malt adjuncts, specifically. I am unsure who the "authority" was that decreed this, and only this, was now the proper use of the term. Farther on in our timeline, the same industry has begun using the term more generally (less precisely, but not less accurately) to describe all adjuncts, vice just malt adjuncts. I am unsure whose authority is required to declare this use as valid or invalid.

    Writing a book on brewing does not make one an authority (one having the power to dictate, distinct here from expert) on language, much as writing a history of the Circle of Fifths does not give a musical historian the authority to dictate the use of the Circle of Fifths - just a description of how it came to be, and how it has been used throughout modern Western music. A book on brewing written in the coming decade may very well have a different description of "adjunct" to reflect the growing use in the industry to include all additives beyond the Big Four (to steal a term from the thrash metal scene :grinning: ).

    You cannot simply cite the history within the industry as the reason this is "misuse," as ample history predates the industry usage, and history now exists of the more broad use of the term. In fact, true authority on language isn't delegated to historians (would that it were!) or politicians (although attempts have been made). In fact, linguistic authority rests with the common usage. All modern dictionaries reflect this, in fact. If the common usage of adjunct in brewing came to mean precisely - and only - malt extract alternatives, then that was the authority. If the common usage comes to mean more general additives, then that is the authority.

    I fail to understand how one can be so resistant to linguistic evolution, when it was precisely linguistic evolution which led to the word adjunct being used in the way you insist it remain!
     
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  4. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
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    Weird that a dictionary on brewing would feel the need to specify "malt adjunct." Clearly, there is only one possible use of the word, after all.

    I kid, at least partially (no pun intended on your nom de plume).

    It is interesting, however, that it distinguishes between "surrogate" and "malt surrogate," with both being defined as "adjunct" - one specifically pertaining to malt, the other more broadly (although with "substitute" applied, and without further explanation, there is an implication that this is more than just an additive, but a substitute for something, be it malt or something else).
     
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  5. Ahonky

    Ahonky Initiate (0) Feb 13, 2018 New York

    It's mostly annoying in this case, because such a beer is a pure joke - but also because it incorrectly uses a word that a brewer should most certainly be able to comprehend.
     
  6. officerbill

    officerbill Pooh-Bah (2,228) Feb 9, 2019 New York
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    Malzsurrogat works for me.
    Have US brewers always used adjunct to mean “malt adjunct” or was another term originally used?

    No, it's about recognizing that once a usage hits the mainstream, in this case media, brewers, and drinkers, you're fighting a losing battle.

    “Adjunct“ seems to be a case where the choices are limited to
    1. Complain that it no longer strictly applies to fermentation and continue to (personally) use it in that sense in a rearguard action
    2. Add “malt” and “flavoring” qualifiers to differentiate
    3. Use adjunct to mean anything other than the 4 basics + wheat and no longer make the distinction
    4. Come up with a new word or phrase to specify “malt adjunct”
    I get the feeling that opinions on this break down by age with <low-30's embracing the “new” definition while older drinkers/brewers prefer the terminology they grew up with (I still, stubbornly, use gay to mean happy & carefree).
    As much as I might regret it, the younguns will, eventually, win out.

    On a related note, a few years ago I realized that I'm in the last generation to understand the chorus to Sylvia's Mother :slight_frown:
     
  7. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    It seems like we are reaching a point of diminishing returns. The best advice (which I already gave) is read a textbook(s).

    If you choose to not recognize Dr. Charlie Bamforth, Graham G. Stewart (an emeritus professor in brewing and distilling at Heriot-Watt University), and others as being “experts” then…

    I have been brewing beer for 25 years and I know what the term adjunct means as regards brewing beer.

    I hope you have a nice day.

    P.S. If you truly wished to be educated here I would be willing to do so but it seems to me that you really don’t.
     
  8. rozzom

    rozzom Pooh-Bah (2,620) Jan 22, 2011 New York
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    Despite being / having been a big fan of three out of four of those bands, when I hear “Big Four” I think of the accounting firms. I understand this reflects poorly on me.

    As to the debate at hand - I think both sides have a legitimate argument. For better or worse the adjunct = anything added side “wins” because that has become broadly adopted.

    What doesn’t hold water with me is that because the new meaning of adjunct (in beer/brewing) more closely matches the general meaning, that that gives the current/newer usage any extra gravitas. All sorts of industries, niche sectors etc have adopted words that have broad/certain meanings to mean something very different/specific/narrow. Because a bunch of beer geeks, turned home brewers, turned direct-to-consumer breweries selling “adjunct”-laden pastry stouts have chosen to change the usage of the word to match the broader usage - well we have to get on board whether we like it or not. But it’s not “right” if that makes sense
     
  9. jasonmason

    jasonmason Zealot (742) Oct 6, 2004 California
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    While I agree with @JackHorzempa and the deference to the experts within this canon of brewing as to the definition of proper adjunct usage, I think this sums up the issue:

    On BA this is a tempest in a teapot. Outside these screens, the public just doesn't care: both about the interest in being educated on the etymology of "adjunct", or as to whether that term is being appropriately utilized. As wrong as the usage may be, I doubt a single buyer will be swayed by the egregious misuse of adjunct to describe "snickerdoodle"...let along the vagary of using snickerdoodle as a descriptor in the first place.

    The point was made earlier that brewers are probably using adjunct instead of flavoring because it's a more palatable term, given negative connotation toward the term "flavoring". I think this is spot on. The "craft" consuming public knows this too in a way, but makes themselves feel better in thinking that those peanut butter cups and Lucky Charms dumped in their beer make it fancy because they are "adjuncts", not flavoring additives. In my opinion, it is steering of the beer's perception by brewers, and self-placating language by consumers.
     
  10. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
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    First, the bolded part: this directly contradicts what I stated. Directly (post #183). You are misrepresenting what I said, either because it was too lengthy to be bothered with, or because you want to "win" more than you care to be correct. I cannot emphasize that enough. What you stated, above, comes very close to lying, and from an intellectual standpoint, I find that offensive.

    Jack, if you refuse to acknowledge the difference between an expert (one with professional knowledge on a subject) and an authority (one with the ability to dictate and establish precedent for a subject), then I agree: it seems we will not find common ground. You yourself are an expert, of sorts; as am I, in different areas (not brewing, obviously). Neither of us are authorities with the power to direct how others must act within our areas of expertise - nor is Dr. Bramforth (unless the Heriot-Watt hegemony has been vastly downplayed by the media).





    As soon as you can tell me who has the authority to dictate how language is used, you will have educated me - as it is your explicit assertion that the re-broadening of adjunct to reflect its actual definition is misuse (posts #174, 165, 169). Until then, you are answering a different question (what constitutes a malt adjunct) - and you are correct, it is a question in which I am not particularly interested, because that is a diversion from the actual topic being discussed. (If coffee is not considered a malt adjunct, I don't particularly care, in other words. It's not a relevant point to prove, as it does nothing to resolve the question at hand.)

    Your brewing experience has nothing to do with linguistics (or linguistic history). I would never pretend to know more about the creation of beer than you - and I would love to learn brewing from you, especially styles like Kölsch! - but my contention is not about brewing methodology. It is about language, history, and authority.

    I gave you what I thought was a very specific (albeit lengthy) retort about why I have a different opinion than you on the matter. You have chosen to not address any part of it, and instead suggested, falsely, that I do not consider the experts as, well, experts. I accept that we have different opinions, and I recognize you will apparently always consider adjunct to be synonymous, within a brewing context, to malt adjunct, no matter what becomes popular within the industry itself.

    "Lead a horse," indeed.
     
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  11. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
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    I disagree with the concept of this being "misuse," obviously, but this highlights something I had not considered: namely, that "flavoring" or "additive" may be considered pejorative.

    I have strongly suggested that "adjunct" itself has a very negative connotation within the craft brewing community, but as you have pointed out, breweries aren't solely focused on our tiny slice of beer purchasing. With a wide, uneducated public afraid of "chemicals" and "processed" food, adjunct may very well be a more palatable term than additive or flavoring.

    Certainly food for thought.
     
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  12. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    On TeacherAdvocate.com, some people have started to call certain tenured professors "adjunct professors" if they feel that that particular professor is not "essential" to the school. And now, the actual adjunct professors are taking offense to their title because they feel that the revealed broader meaning indicates systemic bias. It's gotten nasty over there. :wink:
     
  13. jasonmason

    jasonmason Zealot (742) Oct 6, 2004 California
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    I personally think that is what this whole debate over the modern usage of "adjunct" comes down to.

    Contemporary usage of language, especially in craft brewing, projects additive/flavoring as a negative, done as a crass gimmick by large brewers. By lumping what many consider as additives (cookies, candy, fruit, etc.) into a category that was traditionally utilized for a fairly specific scope of ingredients, an air of legitimacy is lent to their inclusion. In a field where taste (not marketing) is supposed to be king, there is an air of disingenuity of being told that one's beer was intentionally flavored to taste like s'mores or fruit pie. Couch that flavor however in language that has traditionally been used to describe a technical part of the brewing process, and it becomes far more palatable to the general public.
     
    #193 jasonmason, Jan 2, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2020
  14. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
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    Duuuuuude ..... mind blown. :grinning:

    (Don't even get me started on professor vs. doctor debates - very common in the performing arts!)



    Well, I think it has more with resistance to change (even though change is what enabled "adjunct" as a term to be used so specifically within the brewing industry to begin with). But I think you're on to something, even though it contradicts something else I believe - that being: adjunct itself is often perceived as a pejorative term. I think you're right, here, at least among the public writ large (i.e. outside of our community).

    I'm not 100% sure it has full applicability, though. Does a pastry stout loaded with additives really benefit, from a marketing standpoint, by the label of "adjunct stout?" All of those ingredients (e.g breakfast cereal, candy) are still listed. We know that there is a difference between an imperial stout with a malt, hop, and yeast combination favored to resemble a s'more, and a stout with a ton of actual s'mores tossed in. Does tossing the "adjunct" label onto the latter really defuse the negative connotations many might have toward a brewery that had to "cheat" to get to their desired flavor profile? I ask not as a rhetorical tool; I legitimately do not know.

    By way of example, consider the incredibly soft mouthfeel of the VT IPAs: Alchemist and Hill Farmstead, most notably. Many brewers outside of that region accomplish a similar effect via additives (often oats and/or lactose). Is there a common regard among the craft beer community (perhaps not the public at large, however) to consider the necessity for additives a negative? That they had to "cheat" to achieve the same mouthfeel?

    Finally, if "additives" and "flavoring" might have negative connotations .... then why shift to "adjunct," instead of avoiding terminology entirely? Why not simply state (as so many do, hyperbole aside): "Imperial Stout brewed with graham cracker, Madagascar vanilla beans, cinnamon sticks, and local bumblebee honey"? These brewers are using the term "adjunct" when they don't need to use any term, really - misuse vs. use debate set aside.

    Just further food for thought. I enjoy that this is more of an exploration than a debate. :slight_smile:
     
  15. Coronaeus

    Coronaeus Grand Pooh-Bah (3,744) Apr 21, 2014 Canada (ON)
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    The word is not being used incorrectly to refer to flavour additions like coffee, vanilla, maple syrup, etc. These ingredients are being added to a beer and are thus adjuncts to the beer. There is no mis-use of the English language here. This point can not be debated.

    Because the convention in brewing circles has been to refer to malt adjuncts simply as adjuncts, the use of the word adjunct, with no qualifier, to refer to coffee, vanilla, maple syrup, etc. is an unconventional use of the word when referring these kinds of. additions to beer. This is still not wrong, just confusing and unclear given convention.

    While not really necessary, the distinction mentioned by @islay above is all that is needed for clarity. Namely, malt adjunct and flavouring adjunct. That way you are actually being clearer about what you mean, both in the conventional sense, and the unconventional sense.

    If the concern is one with respect to clarity, then both the conventional and unconventional adjuncts should carry a preceding qualifier.
     
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  16. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    American craft brewers seem to approach their trade as though it is the ‘Wild West’ and they can do whatever they want. If they want to add snickerdoodles to their beers they choose to do so. If they want to add bacon to their beers then ditto. The sky is the limit.

    I personally have no interest in any of those sorts of beers I detailed above but if an American craft brewer wants to go that way, and the brewery owner is OK with it, go for it.

    But when it comes to brewing industry terminology an American craft brewer(s) does not have carte blanche here. They really should be using terms as they are used within the brewing industry.

    Cheers!
     
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  17. Ranbot

    Ranbot Pooh-Bah (2,463) Nov 27, 2006 Pennsylvania
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    Ewe always get me.
     
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  18. officerbill

    officerbill Pooh-Bah (2,228) Feb 9, 2019 New York
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    I agree with everything you say here, including the “should be using terms as they are used within the brewing industry” and lack of interest in those sorts of beers.

    But there is no overriding authority (outside of gov't) mandating the use of specific terminology and, once consumer-oriented media and industry members (professional brewers) start using an alternative definition the writing is on the wall; whether or not the “new” definition is correct no longer matters to anyone other than purists.

    I'm sure my grandkids will be debating if hop-flavored yeasts should be classified as adjuncts
     
  19. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    If they were properly educated (e.g., Brewing School at UC Davis) maybe there would be no debate occurring here?

    Cheers!
     
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  20. islay

    islay Savant (1,211) Jan 6, 2008 Minnesota

    Again, consider the possibility that they are "properly educated" and simply disagree with you. I've been very well aware of both sides of this debate for years and fall firmly into the broad/modern usage camp.
     
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