Adjuncting with hazelnut/pecan?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by nomadicbeer, Oct 10, 2018.

  1. nomadicbeer

    nomadicbeer Initiate (180) Sep 26, 2016 Tennessee
    Trader

    Hey everyone,

    I have an 11%+ stout that has been sitting in a rye whiskey barrel for about 5 months. I am planning on adjuncting it once we pull the beer out of the barrel with a boatload of vanilla and coconut, then adding some peppers, Saigon cinnamon, and a couple other things later in secondary.

    I'm particularly interested in adding either roasted hazelnut powder or roasted pecans/pecan powder. Does anyone have experience, particularly with the powders, using these? Leads on good sources would be appreciated as well.

    Thanks!

    Derek
     
  2. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (872) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    What in the literal fuck is going on here?

    I just don't know where to start. Throwing everything in the pantry in what's probably an already solid BA imperial stout or using the made up word "adjuncting".

    I hate craft beer.
     
  3. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,470) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania

    Adjuncting is a very special form of ingredienting.
     
  4. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (872) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    So . . . after being a dick just there, I thought I might provide some help, even though I can't imagine making this beer myself.

    If you want nut flavor in a beer like this, you're not going to get much, if any, from nut flour/powder. I'd go with something like organic extract.

    [​IMG]

    That said, for the love of all things holy, just pick one or two flavorings and go with them. Instead of using a half-dozen in one batch, you could also split your batch into smaller, maybe 1 gallon, batches and dose them each with different flavorings. You could even blend those after packaging to see if the flavorings work well together.

    Lastly, and probably most importantly, if you want to be a brewer, learn what the word adjunct means.
     
    #4 EvenMoreJesus, Oct 11, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  5. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Disciple (394) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont

    Jesus is having a bad day and since its Jesus, we will forgive him,,,,,, and his extract

    Can't help on sourcing but I'd roast the pecans myself, grind them then add for a week.

    Vanilla,, I would avoid a boatload. Get some beans scrape,m out and add . Start with 1 per 5. Gallons wait a week and taste.

    Feel better Jesus.
     
  6. riptorn

    riptorn Initiate (98) Apr 26, 2018 North Carolina
    Trader

    He must first learn to forgive himself. :wink:


    OP, seems like you’re running the risk of really muddling up a batch with all those named and unnamed stuffings. If it doesn't pan out and ends up being really crummy, your 5 months of anticipation and patiently waiting will perhaps be for naught other than to think “Alrighty then....I won’t do THAT again”.

    I’m with EMJ on divvying into smallerish ‘test’ batches, each with different additionings to see how they work with your beer. You might find one or more to be awesome, and others not so much. The awesomer small batches will give clues to what it is you really like, and amounts to add.
    Then blend.....or not.
     
  7. Brewday

    Brewday Initiate (119) Dec 25, 2015 New York

    I'd like to know what the other things are. [​IMG]
     
  8. nomadicbeer

    nomadicbeer Initiate (180) Sep 26, 2016 Tennessee
    Trader

    It will be approximately 2 vanilla beans per gallon, 3 pounds of toasted organic coconut, 3 oz. of Saigon cinnamon, some dehydrated powdered Carolina Reaper peppers (not a lot), single origin coffee that I aged in the rye barrel, and maple syrup added just before kegging/bottling.

    It's to replace the groom's cake at my wedding. Will be bringing a single keg down there, so probably won't be able to do individual treatments. Only vanilla will be present during the entire process of aging on adjuncts; other stuff will be added and subtracted as they add elements of favor as desired.

    Not looking to be a professional brewer, just having fun with a wedding beer. Really just wanted to know about people's personal experience dealing with the two aforementioned nuts in different forms. Complete, unabashed douchebaggery unnecessary; stories of what people have learned from working with these two nuts very much appreciated.

    Thanks.
     
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  9. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (872) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    Jesus. SMH. Good luck with this beer being anything approaching drinkable.
     
  10. riptorn

    riptorn Initiate (98) Apr 26, 2018 North Carolina
    Trader

    There's a commercial beer I like that has an obvious toasted pecan note. I found a clone recipe for a 5-gallon batch that the author claims to be very close.
    It calls for adding to the primary, which has passed for you. I've not brewed it....just putting it out there for evaluation of the pecan process.

    Roast 12 oz. pecans @ 275° for 30 minutes, turning occasionally to get an even toast.
    To sanitize the pecans it suggests simmering the pecans in water or vodka but 1) didn't say how long (I'd guess at least 10 minutes), and 2) didn't say to simmer before or after soaking. It was also not stated whether the simmering liquid was added or dumped.
    Seems 30 minutes @ 275° would be enough to sanitize.


    Special occasion and presumably many people....is there a backup plan if it misses your mark? :astonished:
     
    #10 riptorn, Oct 11, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  11. frozyn

    frozyn Zealot (573) May 16, 2015 New York
    Premium Trader

    Seems doable, if you look at all the pastry stouts that are coming out these days. Other Half has put out stouts in the past 6-12 months using nearly all the ingredients OP mentioned, at least. Also depends on one's definition of drinkable. :beers:
     
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  12. NeroFiddled

    NeroFiddled Poo-Bah (10,351) Jul 8, 2002 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    I'm with @EvenMoreJesus on this one, and I totally agree with the extract - Amoretti makes several good items - but if you're going to do it with real nuts use Pecans as they're more noticeable, have less oil which will kill the head, and appear sweeter even if they're not. Follow @GormBrewhouse on that.
     
  13. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,470) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania

    When I do a wedding beer, I make sure it's a recipe I've brewed at least twice, preferably three times, before. IMO it's not the time to experiment. But that's only my opinion.
     
  14. nomadicbeer

    nomadicbeer Initiate (180) Sep 26, 2016 Tennessee
    Trader

    This is our third batch with the recipe, and we've been ramping up the adjuncts as we progressed through each batch.
     
  15. nomadicbeer

    nomadicbeer Initiate (180) Sep 26, 2016 Tennessee
    Trader

    Yes, we do have a backup. I will definitely look into this if we go the pecan route. Thank you kindly!
     
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  16. frozyn

    frozyn Zealot (573) May 16, 2015 New York
    Premium Trader

    As to the question at hand, the extract @EvenMoreJesus posted or the whole/cracked nuts method referred to by @riptorn and @GormBrewhouse posted seem to me to be the best routes. Any powder at this point might make a whole lotta gunk that could make your life difficult during transfers. Extract seems like the top option as you could even add more to the keg in the event you don't add enough to get to your liking, but that's coming from someone who has never added any sort of nut material to a beer.
     
  17. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,470) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania

    Meant to mention...aside from any grammar lessons, adjuncts are sources (other than malts) of fermentable sugars. Most of the ingredients discussed here aren't adjuncts.
     
  18. MrOH

    MrOH Champion (848) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland

    IF you manage to pull this off, it sounds like a great beer. However, since this is a beer for a Very Special Occasion, I think I would prefer to have something I know will be great, and would have a mass appeal for folks there that aren't Beer Geeks. Does your Uncle Paul like over-the-top everything-under-the-sun stouts? Maybe just have an awesome rye-barrel-aged imperial stout.
     
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  19. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (872) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    Let's take inventory of what we have here. Assuming that it's a 5 gallon batch of imperial stout.

    Bourbon barrel
    10 vanilla beans
    3 pounds of toasted organic coconut
    3 oz. of Saigon cinnamon
    some dehydrated powdered Carolina Reaper peppers
    single origin coffee that I aged in the rye barrel
    maple syrup added just before kegging/bottling
    hazelnuts and/pecans

    The amount of vanilla alone is going to make it smell and taste like a Yankee Candle. I can't imagine what adding that much coconut and cinnamon will do in addition. Even without knowing the amounts of the last four ingredients, at the best they are just going to be icing on the grossest cake ever.
     
  20. AWA

    AWA Aspirant (217) Jul 22, 2014 California

    Damn it. You're right. Now I hate craft beer too. Gonna go drink a Coors alone in the dark.
     
  21. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (872) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    And jerk off while looking at an unopened four pack of Prairie Deconstructed Bomb!?
     
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  22. nomadicbeer

    nomadicbeer Initiate (180) Sep 26, 2016 Tennessee
    Trader

    Personally, I think more of the people at the wedding are beer-savvy enough or so beer-ignorant that a pastry will overall appeal to way more of the attendants than if I just do a rye-forward stout. It was developed over the course of the past year through the 3 batches with the sole intent of being an accompaniment to dessert; that's all. I do appreciate and thank you, legitimately, for making a salient point without purist vitriol, though. Lol.

    I suppose, after today, I now have a much better feel for what happens when someone who spends all of their BA time on the Trading Forums comes over to the Homebrew pages. :relieved:
     
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  23. Brewday

    Brewday Initiate (119) Dec 25, 2015 New York

    I would save these for the bachelors party. Where did you get a rye barrel.
     
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  24. AWA

    AWA Aspirant (217) Jul 22, 2014 California

    Well damn.That's a fine idea.
     
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  25. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,755) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Premium

    I think you need at least three types of pepper or it gets a little boring.
     
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  26. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Disciple (394) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont

    Personal experience???

    Well, with almonds, vanilla beans, coconuts and peppers, ,,,,,,

    I've used 2 oz of almonds with good results crushed then toasted in the oven at 300F for 30 minutes.
    Coconut up to 1 lb of toasted coconut, but these days I prefer no more than 8 oz, over 8 oz seems to be a head killer and can almost dampen other flavors.

    Vanilla I've posted above.

    Habanyero peppers 2 lanced the last 10 minutes of the boil for a little smokey heat, then discarded.

    Of course you want to make what's good for your tastes and with several similar batches under your belt, I assume, you will do fine.

    Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
     
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  27. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (872) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    There's no purist vitriol or unabashed douchebaggery in the responses, except that which you already brought with you. "Adjuncting" anyone? You came here and posted no recipe or technique, simply a laundry list of additives that you were planning on using and wanted people to help you add more. If you had spent more time here you'd realize that this forum helps people learn how to make better beer and is not just for selfish inquiries that shed no light on the process that people take to get to their end product.
     
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  28. chavinparty

    chavinparty Initiate (120) Jan 4, 2015 New Hampshire

    I commend your adjunctioning. I would never put 50$ of vanilla in 5 gallons I think if anything that coulld be detriimental. Other than that it sounds really interesting. I think it’s safe to say that it’s the most desertlike recipe for beer I’ve ever seen.
    Seriously though how many vanilla beans go into a wedding cake?
     
  29. Dave_S

    Dave_S Initiate (48) May 18, 2017 England

    I have to admit, my first thought was along the lines of EMJ's first post.

    That said, if you held a gun to my head and made me brew something like this as a (literal) dessert beer for a mixed group of people, the biggest things that I'd change would be to drop the peppers and maybe the cinnamon. If it's big and sweet and dominated by vanilla / coconut / maple / hazelnut then you might not win awards for balance and subtlety but you will end up with something that you could sip like a sweet liqueur, or at least pour over ice cream. Whereas chilli-heat and cinnamon-spiceiness are things that can get you properly into get-this-away-from-my-face territory.

    Also, if you want to get some nut flavour involved and you've abandoned any pretence at subtlety way back down the line, had you considered just bunging in a load of some random nut liqueur like Frangelico or Amaretto?
     
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  30. frozyn

    frozyn Zealot (573) May 16, 2015 New York
    Premium Trader

    You're not even the least bit curious to find out how it tastes in the end? :wink:
     
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  31. riptorn

    riptorn Initiate (98) Apr 26, 2018 North Carolina
    Trader

    If it turns out too loud for the less adventurous in the group, give ‘em a shot glass of your brew and a thinner beer for making boilermakers.....that might also be well received just before things wind down when folks tend to get more ‘adventurous’.
     
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  32. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Disciple (394) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont

    Hope you have a better weekend Jesus.
     
  33. Witherby

    Witherby Initiate (91) Jan 5, 2011 Massachusetts
    Trader

    If it were me I would make an individual tincture of all of the ingredients (put each in a separate mason jar and cover with vodka or some of that rye) and then after a few weeks pour some small samples of the beer and then add drops of each extra ingredient and figure out which combination of ingredients gives you the flavor you are looking for. Then you can add the tinctures to the barrel. This will give you a higher likelihood of getting a beer you will be happy with. I did that with a mole sweet stout and was very happy with the process. And it was fun trying the various flavor combinations. If you've ever had a beer with too much cinnamon (or coffee or anything else) you'll be glad you went this way. Trust me.
     
  34. donspublic

    donspublic Poo-Bah (1,609) Aug 4, 2014 Texas
    Premium Trader

    I guess my issue with this is I have had all of these adjuncts/additives in various stouts thru the years and most of these (pecan, coconut, hazelnut) are usually the driver of the beer with pepper, vanilla, cinnamon used to add some personality. I guess I just look at this as what flavor are you trying to get out of this beer, especially with having it in Rye, which is going to drive some of the flavor and mute the others. Pecan is very hard to get across in beer (and expensive to boot) and it is going to be striving to find a place to stand out with those other ingredients. I just had a stout over in England what was an RIS and it had Lactose, Muscovado, Sucrose, Cacao Nibs, Cacao Husks, Vanilla, Vanilla Extract, French Oak added as Adjuncts. All of those ingredients went to make that beer have an accentuated chocolate cookie feel. It was unbelievable, one of the best stouts I have ever had. I don't mind the so called pastry stouts when they have a goal in mind, i.e. wanting you to think of a particular thing when you drink the beer. Also I would have to ask myself, would i ever bake a pastry out of all those ingredients you listed?

    And seriously don't take it personal, you are getting advice here on what you asked for, and some are just trying to wrap their heads around what this beer is going to be like.
     
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  35. chavinparty

    chavinparty Initiate (120) Jan 4, 2015 New Hampshire

    I think it needs a few pounds of cacao nibs to give it a Mexican chocolate cake vibe
     
  36. JohnnyChicago

    JohnnyChicago Crusader (795) Sep 3, 2010 Illinois

    This thread reminded me of this:
    [​IMG]
    OP, I know there can be a temptation to try to cram as much flavor in a beer as humanly possible, but I would heed others’ advice to tone it down. I absolutely think there is a place for sweet, dessert beers, but adding so many flavorings is MUCH more likely to result in a muddled mess than a delicious beer.
    Think about when you were a kid and made ‘meals’ - you’d treat the whole kitchen like a cold stone add-ons section; making pancakes with 5 different fruits and nuts and chocolate chips etc. How’d that turn out? Michelin Star material?
    Compare that to some of the best cuisine the world has to offer. Simple, subtle ingredients of high quality. Look at something like sushi. 3, maybe 4 ingredients and subtle flavors = world class eats.

    Beer is no different. Less is more. You don’t have to be a professional brewer to make delicious, balanced beer.

    As for the original question, I’d agree that extracts are always a good bet. Also, a technique that used to be utilized, but seems to have disappeared lately is ‘fat washing’. A way of making your own (very fresh) extracts. Basically prepare your fatty flavoring e.g. roasting and chopping the nuts, and soak in neutral grain spirit (everclear) for a few weeks in a mason jar to soak up the flavor. Separate the nuts from the liquid and trash them. Then put a straw in the jar, and put in the freezer overnight. The next day, a layer of fat will have frozen on the top. Remove the straw and decant the fat-free extract from the hole. Repeat a couple of times and you’ll have a relatively fat-free high quality extract.
     
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  37. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Meyvn (1,245) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado

    This should be a question you have to answer to access this forum.
    @Todd
     
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  38. donspublic

    donspublic Poo-Bah (1,609) Aug 4, 2014 Texas
    Premium Trader

    Not really sure on that, when we have so many breweries lumping non fermentables under Adjuncts. Google will usually point you to the proper definition in regards to beer, but when breweries are starting to blur that line, it starts becoming muddled up.
     
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  39. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Meyvn (1,245) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado

    Exactly, garbage in garbage out, right? No more garbage!
     
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  40. chavinparty

    chavinparty Initiate (120) Jan 4, 2015 New Hampshire

    I agree with everyone on the less is more idea for sure but if everyone stayed in those boundaries we probably wouldn’t have many of the cool beer styles we have today. So I’m all for experimentation. Part of what makes home brewing cool is that there isn’t much to lose if you get weird with it. And you just might make something amazing. Also with the food analogy there are many super complex Indian flavors that come from using a rediculous array of spices. I don’t personally like “adjuncting” with too many things in the same batch but I’m sure there are many brilliant combinations to be discovered