Aeration

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by alysmith4, Mar 17, 2013.

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  1. alysmith4

    alysmith4 Pooh-Bah (1,738) Feb 11, 2005 District of Columbia
    Pooh-Bah

    I posted this in another thread, but didn't get any answers so I thought I'd post again:

    How does one not aerate the beer (too much)? I spent the greater part of the day racking/bottling, but was worried that I was introducing too much oxygen into the beer. I used a racking cane with an auto siphon (best invention EVER), but at certain times there were bubbles in the tubing. (I also managed to pick up quite a bit of sediment, but I guess that's a different problem.) Also, I had to "re-pump" a few times and was worried this was causing too much air to get in. When I bottled, I attached my bottling wand to a piece of tubing that connected to the spigot. It was super easy, but again I was concerned that I was splashing things around too much.

    I ask mainly because I completely ruined my first batch of beer with aeration. I couldn't get the siphon going, and ended up pouring the beer though a funnel into the bottles :grimacing:. I've upgraded my equipment since then, but don't want to make the same mistakes again.
     
  2. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    So are you racking from primary to secondary? Secondary to bottling bucket? Have you picked up a bottling wand yet?
     
  3. alysmith4

    alysmith4 Pooh-Bah (1,738) Feb 11, 2005 District of Columbia
    Pooh-Bah

    I racked to the secondary, just to add priming sugar. This seemed the best way to do it, given how much sediment was in the primary. Plus, the secondary doubles as a bottling bucket, to which I've attached tubing connecting to a bottling wand (from the spigot).
     
  4. JebediahScooter

    JebediahScooter Initiate (0) Sep 5, 2010 Vermont

    You just have to be careful, and you'll get the hang of it. There's always going to be some oxygen getting in there when you rack to a bottling bucket and bottle (unless you're doing closed transfers under CO2 pressure). I found early on that, for me, it was all about having work surfaces at the right height. Fermenter on the kitchen counter and bottling bucket on a dining room chair works just right for me. It allows me to have the autosiphon hose flush against the bottom of the bucket when I start so that the beer isn't splashing down into the bucket, and it's then submerged and gently transferring within no time. Also, pay attention to where the tip of your autosiphon is so that the beer level doesn't drop below it, cause you to lose siphon, and force you to start pumping again. Don't worry about the sediment, you'll get better at avoiding large amounts of it, and it will mostly fall out of suspension and remain on the bottom of the bottle as you condition your beer anyway.
     
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  5. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    It is very difficult unless somebody witnesses your bottling technique to properly respond to your query.

    You asked: “How does one not aerate the beer (too much)?” Is there a reason that you think you are aerating too much? Have your bottled beers tasted oxidized (the stereotypical flavor used to describe oxidized is a cardboard taste)?

    You stated: “ …but at certain times there were bubbles in the tubing.” I can’t say for certain what is happening with you but it is not unusual for CO2 to come out of solution during transfers; this will represent itself as bubbles in the tubing. Maybe the bubbles you are seeing are CO2 vs. air?

    You also mention: ”When I bottled, I attached my bottling wand to a piece of tubing that connected to the spigot. It was super easy, but again I was concerned that I was splashing things around too much.” If you are using a bottling wand no “splashing” should be occurring. The beer should just relatively slowly fill up from the bottom with no splashing occurring.

    Are you a member of a homebrew club? If so, maybe one of the experienced members of your club would be willing to come over and watch your bottling technique and provide some advice?

    Cheers!
     
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  6. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I would do this next batch with these upgrades and concentrate on avoiding aeration. I think you'll be head and shoulders above where you were by using a funnel. I use a secondary fermentor, against the suggestions of everyone in this forum, even thoguh I risk oxidation and infection when I do it. I am very careful, and haven't had any issues thus far.
     
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  7. alysmith4

    alysmith4 Pooh-Bah (1,738) Feb 11, 2005 District of Columbia
    Pooh-Bah

    Yes, these are the upgrades I used for this batch.
     
  8. alysmith4

    alysmith4 Pooh-Bah (1,738) Feb 11, 2005 District of Columbia
    Pooh-Bah

    Yes, my first batch was bottled using a funnel (and plenty of splashing!) I didn't taste like cardboard, but was very sour.
     
  9. alysmith4

    alysmith4 Pooh-Bah (1,738) Feb 11, 2005 District of Columbia
    Pooh-Bah

    Actually, now that I think about it, quite a bit of the Krausen ring got into the final product. I was just reading about it's effect on taste, and the astringency described is closer to how it tasted (as opposed to sour). Perhaps it wasn't an aeration (oxidation) problem, but a Krausen problem. I didn't taste anything close to cardboard/sherry.
     
  10. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    a few quick tricks/advice to help on bottling day.

    place the bottling bucket high. you'll need alot of tubing, so go get sum.
    place the bottles down low. the height differenece from bucket to bottle speeds things up alot. beer on top of fridge, bottles on kitchen floor. it helps to place an old bath towel on the floor too, because you will spill some sticky beer.

    clear beer helps. i place a book under the spigot of the bucket to lean the trub/hops/gunk to one side. if the flow stops, close the spigot, hold the racking cane up high and remove the spring tip. you have hop debris in the tip. this might happen once or twice. any more and your beer is not clear.

    fill the bottle right to the top. removing the cane leaves the ideal amount of head space. the yeast will begin to consume the priming sugar right away. this will release a small bit of co2. this helps to push out oxygen.

    have your caps ready to go. if you get an assembly line going you will find that bottling is not as bad as many people say. even still, i prefer to use a keg when possible.
    above all, don't get up tight. brewing is ideally the opposite of frustration. if you get tense your beer will surely suffer.
    Cheers.

    edit- i wouldn't stress about any krausen related problems. krausen is good. krausen is the least of a brewers worries. i see krausen and sleep like a baby. every little things gonna be alright...
     
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  11. GardenWaters

    GardenWaters Initiate (0) Jan 8, 2012 Illinois

    I completely aerated my very first batch when racking to the bottling bucket. I got air bubbles all the way through the siphon. I didn't have the hose clamp that connects the tubing to the cane tight enough, even though it wasn't loose by any means. Now I make sure it's good and tight and haven't had a problem since.
     
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  12. mattbk

    mattbk Savant (1,111) Dec 12, 2011 New York

    a few more things:

    - bubbles in your tubing during siphoning may be a sign that you have some air leaking in somewhere. Use a zip tie to make sure the tube is firmly attached to the siphon. This has happened to me before. Also, inspect the autospihon to ensure there are no cracks in it, even a small crack will vacuum in air.
    - did you say you are using your secondary fermentor as a bottling bucket? Plastic buckets are believed to be poor secondaries, there is too much risk of oxidation. If you want to consider conducting your conditioning in a secondary, invest in some glass. Otherwise, skip it altogether.
    - if you believe your beer is sour: well, I have some bad news for you. Sour often means contaminated. Hope it gets better and not worse. Keep an eye on your sanitization practices for your next batch as well. Unless you were planning on making an Oud Bruin...? :wink:

    best of luck.
     
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  13. alysmith4

    alysmith4 Pooh-Bah (1,738) Feb 11, 2005 District of Columbia
    Pooh-Bah

    How did it taste?
     
  14. alysmith4

    alysmith4 Pooh-Bah (1,738) Feb 11, 2005 District of Columbia
    Pooh-Bah

    Haha, well I do like sours.. but not sour IPAs! I should have clarified that I didn't use the secondary as a secondary, but as a bottling bucket. (I bought a lid for it, so it goes both ways :wink:.) Thanks for the tip regarding plastic though, I'll keep that in mind!
     
  15. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    It sounds to me like you are doing fine for the level of equipment you have. If you had a keg setup, you could purge vessels with CO2 to minimize O2 pick up, but that is not an option for most bottlers. (As a relative newbee to kegging, I'm only starting to do this sort of thing).

    When I rack, I can sometimes coax the bubbles in the cane to flow out by tilting the cane and pinching the tube. But I think these bubbles are small potatoes compared to oxygen pickup that can happen in the receiving vessel. I don't like autosiphons because I always seem to have to double pump a lot, but others like them, and this probably doesn't contribute much oxygen pickup, either. Make sure that the tube in the receiving vessel goes all the way to the bottom to avoid splashing, which will increase oxygen pickup. Your bottling wand should go straight to the bottom of your bottles, which should help minimize splashing - that's what they are designed to do. I have never heard a definitive answer about whether those oxygen absorbing bottle caps that cost a little more really work, and whether they work to a degree that matters.

    I give my bottles 2-3 weeks at room temp to prim. While it is true that the yeast that primes the beer can scavenge some of the oxygen in the headspace, they probably do not deplete it. Therefore, once my bottles are primed, they go into cold storage. This is where having lots of fridge space is helpful. Once beer is cold (e.g., 30-35 degrees F), oxidation slows down substantially.

    High gravity dark beers allegedly are more resistant to oxidation than low gravity light (color) beers. Now that I have some kegging options, I will not bottle my lower gravity beers. I only bottle beers that I intend to keep for a while, which usually means bigger Belgian beers and beers with souring bugs. Bottling beers that I want to keep for a while also means that I can free up kegs faster for those more mild, every day drinkers that I like to make.
     
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  16. JimSmetana

    JimSmetana Initiate (0) May 11, 2012 Illinois

    Aly. No spigot on that bottling bucket? I would think that's a must have.
     
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  17. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    My thoughts...as well.

    After while...the end of the hose b/comes stretched and doesn't make an occlusive seal the way it did when it was new. I wrap a small piece of painter's tape around the upper part of the siphon cane where the hose connects to compensate.

    After the siphon is inserted into the hose...the connection point is sealed with two small pieces of painter's tape.
     
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  18. alysmith4

    alysmith4 Pooh-Bah (1,738) Feb 11, 2005 District of Columbia
    Pooh-Bah

    Jim, yes, it has a spigot. I must be really terrible at explaining myself! :astonished:
     
  19. JimSmetana

    JimSmetana Initiate (0) May 11, 2012 Illinois

    Maybe I am not reading this well then. If you have a spigot why are you using a siphon?
     
  20. JebediahScooter

    JebediahScooter Initiate (0) Sep 5, 2010 Vermont

    He's siphoning into a bottling bucket and then using the bottling wand and spigot.
     
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