Aging in Maple Syrup bourbon barrels

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by DB-1, Jul 18, 2019.

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  1. DB-1

    DB-1 Initiate (0) Nov 28, 2017 Michigan

    I have done some reading on some old threads regarding aging in syrup barrels, but can't quite find the answer to my questions. This seems like the best place to look for some knowledge!
    1. I'm reading that you should always get the beer in them right after they are dumped. What is "right after"? I have a couple that have been dumped for a couple weeks now, I acquired them last Saturday and have a beer in fermentation. They will have been dumped for about a month. should I sanitize them? Should I fill them with a half bottle of bourbon?
    2. How much syrup can be left in the barrel? I pulled one bung (the smell is nothing short of amazing) and it looked like there was maybe 3/4" of syrup when the barrel was on its side. Is this ok? Or should I lay it upside down and let it drip for a while?
    3. If I drain them further, and end up having to put bourbon in them as sanitation, should I then dump this before racking in? seems like it might rinse a lot of the syrupy goodness down the drain.
    4. Where is the best place to store them until I can fill them? They are right now in my lower garage, as it's fairly cool and damp. I have been spraying them with a spray bottle of water every day or two. Is this my best way to store them for a couple more weeks until I can get them filled? Or would they be better in my basement? Cool and dry. The basement garage is musty, basement is not.
    5. I was going to age the porter with a couple vanilla beans. Can this be done in the barrel as well?
    thanks in advance for your thoughts!
     
  2. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    Never used the. But they sound fresh. I have helped others use barrels and all were used as they came. No rinsing. I'd run the beers right in and bung it.

    Assuming these are chared oak barrels it's possible you will get some vanilla notes from them so depending on how much vanilla you want also depends on the number od beans.

    I'd go easy on the extra vanilla, for my tastes.
     
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  3. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    I've not used barrels either to provide much advice, but I noticed that you said there is still some syrup in them. That's sugar, and that means you'll have some refermentation, so I recommend that you install an airlock in the bung once you fill the barrels.
     
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  4. DB-1

    DB-1 Initiate (0) Nov 28, 2017 Michigan

    Yes. I was planning on trying to find some bungs that would accommodate an airlock.
     
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  5. DB-1

    DB-1 Initiate (0) Nov 28, 2017 Michigan

    One thought I had was draining the syrup, pouring a partial bottle of good bourbon in as a sanitizer. I could re-pasteurize the syrup, and add it back in with the beer. Just not sure if this is wasted energy, or even how much syrup one would want to add to the beer?

    It’s a highly fermentable sugar, am I just going to be adding flavors I don’t want with that?
     
  6. Eggman20

    Eggman20 Crusader (433) Feb 14, 2017 Minnesota

    I've used two maple bourbon barrels now so I think I can give you some help from my experiences.

    1. It's best practice to fill the barrel with beer as soon as possible to keep the barrel form drying out. You don't have to sanitize (and don't bother adding bourbon if this is the 1st use post-maple syrup) but I'm a conservative guy so I prefer to add near boiling water to the boil which will sanitize and also ensure that you don't have any leaks in your barrel. Again you can likely skip this but that's my personal preference.

    2. You don't need any syrup left in the barrel. My 1st one had a ton of syrup in it and my 2nd was totally cleaned out but both produced similar flavors as the maple syrup will ferment out.

    3. I always add Bourbon for future uses to get some more bourbon flavors back in. How much you want to leave before adding beer depends on the flavor you want. For 1st use sanitizer I would probably drain all of it.

    4. Store the barrel somewhere cool and make sure its sealed up the keep bugs out. It should stay wet for quite a few weeks after dumping.

    5. I would not recommend adding vanilla beans. In my experience the resulting beer is going to be very sweet so adding vanilla is just going to make it worse. In the future I plan to add coffee beans to these beers to help balance the beer.
     
  7. Eggman20

    Eggman20 Crusader (433) Feb 14, 2017 Minnesota

    I think you would be wasting energy worrying about the syrup in the barrel. It will ferment out so the maple flavor you get will be from the maple that has already soaked into the oak. Adding bourbon would be fine but make sure to rotate the barrel and check for any leaks. If there are a lot of leaks you'll have to add water to the barrel to soak up and tighten the cracks.

    Also sorry for the typos above! Always trying to write too fast when I'm at work. Should be "add near boiling water to the barrel".

    One other note: I would not add bottling yeast when bottling. I had to uncap and recap both batches of beer to get the carbonation to the right level. I added a low amount of sugar so I believe the CBC bottling yeast must have fermented some of the more complex maple sugars that the original (and stressed out) yeast couldn't.
     
  8. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Maple syrup doesn't really contain any complex sugars. It's mostly sucrose, with some fructose and glucose.

    Also, CBC-1 is marketed as a conditioning yeast because it doesn't eat maltotriose (a complex sugar, and the one that most regular ale/lager strains use partially but not fully).
     
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  9. Eggman20

    Eggman20 Crusader (433) Feb 14, 2017 Minnesota

    Good to know! Probably didn't get all the maple syrup fermented out then so it may not have carbonated at all if I didn't add yeast (it was a 14% stout and I've had trouble bottle conditioning them previously). I'll have to consider pitching some more yeast next time I have a maple bourbon barrel.
     
    #9 Eggman20, Jul 19, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
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  10. DB-1

    DB-1 Initiate (0) Nov 28, 2017 Michigan

    Thanks for the input guys! Hoping my first barrel project is a success.

    Eggman, about how long did you find that yours needed in the barrel? Did you age/condition longer after the barrel?
     
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  11. Eggman20

    Eggman20 Crusader (433) Feb 14, 2017 Minnesota

    Depends on size but you won't need much on 1st use on small barrels. Like I said mine we're both too sweet with not a whole lot of time in the barrel. 1st was an 8 gallon barrel that I bottled about 6 weeks and 2nd was 10 gallon that was the same. I'd say check it at 2 weeks and if ready go ahead and bottle it. Otherwise check each week until ready.

    I bottled straight out of the barrel so no additional conditioning. In hindsight I should have considered brewing a new batch to blend so it was more balanced
     
  12. DB-1

    DB-1 Initiate (0) Nov 28, 2017 Michigan

    That’s a thought. I will be kegging, not bottling, and was thinking I’d rack/filter into a keg and let it keep conditioning. I’m assuming a 1.098 Porter would appreciate a solid 6 months or more. This will also give me some time to mess around with adding vanilla, or if it turns out too sweet as you mentioned, coffee. The idea of brewing another batch to balance it if needed is a thought too.

    It’s a 6.5 gallon barrel I believe. I did figure it would take a couple months on the oak though, if it’s as quick as a couple weeks that’s quite a surprise. I wasn’t going to check it until a month.

    How is it that some of the bigger breweries go to a year or two? I’ve heard that it’s somewhat the surface area of oak per gallon, but If they are running a 53 gallon for a year or more it seems like that’s nowhere near the same as only a couple weeks.
     
  13. Minipork

    Minipork Zealot (628) Dec 11, 2010 Illinois
    Trader

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  14. DB-1

    DB-1 Initiate (0) Nov 28, 2017 Michigan

    That’s a great chart. So in theory I could be looking at several months at least to equal out to a beer that sits a year. Does anyone know of a source to get bungs that will accommodate an airlock?
     
  15. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    Check morebeer.com. They have many sizes so measure yours first.
     
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  16. Eggman20

    Eggman20 Crusader (433) Feb 14, 2017 Minnesota

    You can age it a long time but the downside will be increased oxidation and infection risk. Most places barrel age 3-6 months in the big barrels and so you're talking 1.5-3 months on a 1st use 5-6 gallon barrel comparatively. 2 weeks may be a little early so stick with your plan to check it at a month or 2 and go from there. If you plan to use it a 2nd time you'll have to leave it longer as the oak will take longer and longer to impart flavor each time its filled (and the maple will be fully gone)
     
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  17. telejunkie

    telejunkie Savant (1,107) Sep 14, 2007 Vermont

    Sounds like I'll just be re-hashing what others have said, but I just racked an RIS as soon as I could into the 10-gallon bourbon, then maple barrel after acquiring it. There was a little leakage from the barrel the first day or two, but nothing major. I placed it in a rubber bin that I had to swap out after two weeks. I left a little room for refermentation to occur. After two weeks or so, I topped it up with some more RIS and let age for about 4 months. Afterwards, kegged one with coffee, vanilla and the other left as was. Most folks in my hb club preferred the "plain" version more. Barrel is now on it's 5th fill and to others point, will add oak staves and bourbon to help support the flavor profile. I average about 6 months in the barrel, trying to top off the barrel each month. After each use, I give it a rinsing out from the garden hose, then an overnight soak with some bourbon and vodka (maybe 1 cup total) which I swirl around the barrel a few times. Then rack my new beer into the barrel.

    I store my full barrel in my cool basement (stays about 61-64F most of the year) for the most part although have brought it up for storage in my upstairs closet for refermentation purposes as well when adding sugars.
     
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  18. DB-1

    DB-1 Initiate (0) Nov 28, 2017 Michigan

    Can you describe further how you “topped Up”? Did you just bottle some fermented wort? Or store in sterile mason jars? Is this a better move than letting the angel take it’s share? I always assumed that part of what made the barrel aged beers come out with a higher abv and that silky mouthfeel was the evaporation process and concentrating of the beer.

    I’m already trying to plan ahead for what to do with what’s left of that hopefully amazing beer that comes out and won’t fit into a 5 gallon keg. I could just bottle it, but that sounds like a hassle dealing priming sugar and fresh bottling yeast.

    I was considering a 1.5 gallon keg instead, and using this to experiment on the batch if what comes out isn’t quite to our liking. We could mess with mixing or coffee or vanilla additions in the small batch, and then if we like it we can perform those steps on the large batch.

    What are you all using for bungs on your barrels? I see the $10-$12 silicone bungs on MoreBeer.com, but there is also #10 rubber stoppers for $3. Is there a reason to use a more expensive bung? Does the silicone flex more and seal better to the wood?
     
  19. Eggman20

    Eggman20 Crusader (433) Feb 14, 2017 Minnesota

    I usually try to brew a larger batch of beer if I plan to top off so I can throw the additional beer into some 1 gallon fermenters and top off as needed. If you're aging long term you will want to top off the barrel or you will be introducing a lot of oxygen to the beer which is already getting a bunch from the barrel. You can brew some small batches to top off but try to keep it close to the base beer.

    I only bottle at this point so no help on kegging but I believe small kegs are hard to get so you will probably have to bottle any additional amounts.

    I just use a rubber stopper so that would be my recommendation. Can't image the difference will be worth the additional cost but maybe someone else with more experience can answer that one
     
  20. telejunkie

    telejunkie Savant (1,107) Sep 14, 2007 Vermont

    My biggest concern with not topping up is acetobacter...i had one batch that I aged 6 months and I only topped up like once, and I definitely noted a little vinegary-ness to it...so I always try to top up now to minimize oxygen-beer interface. That to me is the ideology of distillers...not beer or wine producers regarding the angel's share...aceto won't grow in distilled products, so no worries about it for them.

    My barrel came with a wooden bung, i put a piece of saran wrap on the underside of the bung and acts a tiny bit of a extra "gasket" for the wooden bung...at least in my mind....
     
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