Ale vs Lager

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by DriveFastDrinkSlow, Mar 19, 2014.

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  1. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (1,998) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
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    I believe it was the other way around. They started brewing Porter in the Baltic region before the breweries there had gone over to bottom fermentation and top feremented them. When they went over to bottom fermenting their other beers, they did the same with their Porters. Mostly.
     
  2. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (1,998) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
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    *Slaps head in despair*:slight_frown:
     
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  3. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (1,998) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
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    It's worth noting that all include the word "Stout". What's called Baltic Porter is really a form of Stout (though that doesn't stop it being a Porter as well).
     
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  4. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,071) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
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    Yeah, I agree - didn't mean to word it so it suggested the opposite - only that eventually they began brewing their porters with the same yeast that they used to ferment the majority of the rest of their products- by then lager yeast. (I suppose that depends on which breweries and which porters one is talking about - there are probably some porters considered "Baltic Porters" because of geography that come from traditionally lager beer breweries? Hmmm....).

    Similar to how many of US ales and porters in the pre-craft that survived into the mid-late 20th century - known respectively as "bastard ales" and "Pennsylvania porters", and comparatively minor products in the brewer's line-up, they were eventually fermented with their breweries' house lager yeast at warmer temperatures for some ale-like flavor. Classic examples being Yuengling's Porter and Lord Chesterfield Ale, and Rainier Ale on the west coast. Back then, US brewers (many which still maintained their own yeast) didn't want to mess with multiple yeasts in a single brewer.
     
  5. rozzom

    rozzom Pooh-Bah (2,534) Jan 22, 2011 New York
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    It's got to be trolling or a joke - at least I hope so. I cannot imagine anyone, even on BA, saying that with a straight face.
     
  6. bubseymour

    bubseymour Grand Pooh-Bah (4,656) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
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    What hops, malts, yeasts and extras (coffee, fruit, chocolate, honey) really define the beer, not whether its top or bottom fermented (lager or ale).
     
  7. Beric

    Beric Initiate (0) Jun 1, 2013 Massachusetts

    Nah, given how little love lagers get on this site, and given the monthly discussions just like this, I'm not so sure it's either trolling or a joke. Just take a look at the top 250 for some good evidence of how a lot of people are Hop Advocates or High ABV Advocates, both of which are qualities more often found in "ales" rather than "lagers" or whatever.

    It's a stupid argument, but it leaves more well-crafted lagers for the rest of us. :slight_smile:
     
  8. rozzom

    rozzom Pooh-Bah (2,534) Jan 22, 2011 New York
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    Totally agree with you re: general attitude on here. But that particular comment was like from the textbook of stereotypical beer geek - I just couldn't believe that someone could hit every point like that in a couple of sentences - was like they were trying to have a wind up.

    But you're probably right - sigh
     
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  9. Tut

    Tut Initiate (0) Sep 23, 2004 New York

    Except that malt liquor is a type of beer. :wink:
     
  10. Providence

    Providence Pooh-Bah (2,628) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island
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    It's not a joke, follow what beerassassin posts on this site and you'll find yourself baffled.
     
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  11. GreesyFizeek

    GreesyFizeek Grand Pooh-Bah (5,512) Mar 6, 2013 New York
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    I've seen him post stuff like this before, I don't think he's a troll, just misguided. There are wonderful beers on all sides of the fence.
     
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  12. GreesyFizeek

    GreesyFizeek Grand Pooh-Bah (5,512) Mar 6, 2013 New York
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    My point still stands.
     
  13. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,757) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
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    Well, if you're a true hop head, it's a simple mathematical formula:

    F = IBU / t

    Where F: Flavor, IBU: IBU, and t: days after bottling. Thus, a one-day-old Hi-Res has 111 units of flavor, and is clearly a far more flavorful beer than a 5-year cellar-aged Chimay Blue, which would obviously have less than one full unit of flavor.
     
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  14. Beric

    Beric Initiate (0) Jun 1, 2013 Massachusetts

    I think ABV or OG or something factors in somewhere. Hence why hopheads seem to not foam at the mouth about super fresh Session IPAs. Also, thinking about it even more, it's probably a quadratic function, since no one raves about DFH 120 on this site even though that has tons of IBU and a huge, boozy body. So there has to be a peak somewhere where IBU and everything else meet, and then it drops off again.
     
  15. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,757) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
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    I've seen similar posts from him. I've also seen his location is listed as Antarctica. I'm not aware of too many year-round settlements in Antarctica, and those seem to be rotating posts.

    I concluded some time ago that he's probably just fucking with everyone else, and apparently succeeding quite well. :slight_smile:
     
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  16. Flibber

    Flibber Initiate (0) Jul 27, 2013 England

    I know a disused pub with a sign over the door saying they're licensed to sell "beer and porter". Not sure what was going on there.
     
  17. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,757) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
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    Well, the full formula includes a K factor for Barrel-Aging, a second constant for ABV, a bell-curve-calculated factor for hype, H (where hyping a beer raises its score logarithmically, until it becomes overhyped, and the score is now decremented). And finally, there is a movable clipping function, which caps each factor at a maximum value with respect to each other (DFH 120: the IBU factor is capped because of the ABV factor - or vice-versa). Unfortunately, that's seeded from a four-dimensional look-up table, and posting that here would crash the site.

    I prefer the simpler equation. It's like Newtonian physics: it may not perfectly conform to certain applications, but it's good enough to get the job done most of the time. :wink:
     
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  18. Beric

    Beric Initiate (0) Jun 1, 2013 Massachusetts

    I'd wear a t-shirt with this full equation on it to the next craft beer event I end up at.
     
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  19. rozzom

    rozzom Pooh-Bah (2,534) Jan 22, 2011 New York
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    Which Greenwich hedge fund are you working at?
     
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  20. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,651) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
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    Just to give a few examples from Sweden. Carnegie porterbryggeri was originally Lorentska porterbruket (porter brewing started in 1813 at Lorentska). Carnegie maintained their own brewery and was top fermented until 1976, when the original brewery was closed and production moved to one of Pripps other breweries (Pripps had owned Carnegie since 1928).

    Then there's Sweden's first lager brewery. It was started in 1843 and in a newspaper advertisement from 1844 they listed the products for sale as: Bavarian beer, bitter and less bitter, double Bavarian beer, Bavarian porter and weizenbier. A couple of months later the brewery only brewed Bavarian beer, double Bavarian beer and Bavarian porter. Concerning the "Bavarian porter" the brewery owner mentions in a letter that it uses the same yeast and goes through the same fermentation process as the Bavarian (lager) beer that they brew. So they were brewing bottom fermented porter alongside bavarian lager, from the get go.

    Lastly there's Porterbryggeri-Aktiebolaget i Gefle. It was started in 1873, but despite its name, no more than 3 years later in 1876 it was advertising Bavarian lager beer, iskällardricka (lower abv, bottom-fermented beer) and fatsvagdricka (low-abv, top-fermented beer) for sale.
    [​IMG]
     
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