All Grain Time

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by JimSmetana, Mar 23, 2013.

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  1. JimSmetana

    JimSmetana Initiate (0) May 11, 2012 Illinois

    OK. So to save money (hahaha) I am going to switch to all-grain shortly.

    Extract prices, buying hops 1oz at a time, some specialty grains, $6 for a pkg of Wyeast and next thing I know I am at $30 - $40 and up for a 5 gallon batch.

    Whats the best way to purchase supplies?
    50lb sacks of 2-row?
    Hops by the pound?
    re-pitching 1056?
    All of the above I am sure.

    Whats the best way to do this?
    Is there a g-to grain and hop to keep on hand?

    Thanks.
     
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  2. JebediahScooter

    JebediahScooter Initiate (0) Sep 5, 2010 Vermont

    50lb sacks of 2-row are definitely a good way to save money if you have the space, but then you need to invest in a grain mill. I don't and don't have the space, so I buy my base malt per recipe. If I'm close to 25 pounds for a 10 gallon batch (come in for 20 pounds or whatever), the guys at my LHBS will charge me full price but give me a coupon for a few more pounds (essentially giving me the half-sack discount even though I'm not quite at a half-sack). Another thing that I do is have the LHBS guys re-seal opened and partially used bags of specialty grains while I'm in the ship milling my grains. So if I have a half pound bag of C-120 and only need four ounces, they reseal the remainder so that it keeps well, and I try to incorporate it into the next couple of brews if possible.

    Hops by the pound are definitely a good way to go, especially if have a vacuum sealer. Note that you'll need freezer space.

    Getting multiple brews out of a single smack-pack and thus saving $6-7 each brew can definitely add up.

    Build your own equipment, especially if you have tools, rather than buying. Try to re-purpose, scrounge, etc. stuff. I was patient and ended up landing two decommissioned kegs for free.
     
  3. JimSmetana

    JimSmetana Initiate (0) May 11, 2012 Illinois

    Good idea on resealing. I did not ask my LHBS guys if they would or can do that.

    They did say I can buy all my grains un-crushed and bring them in and crush them there as needed for a recipe. Obviously I would be buying the grains there. Nice guys.
     
  4. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    I've noticed that I use a lot of fuggle and EKG. It doesn't ever take more than an oz or 2 per batch though. I use a lot of hallertau, and C hops are never a bad thing to buy in bulk. Sacks of grain at your LHBS are usually on par with sacks from online sites after S&H. For hops you can go to: http://www.hopsdirect.com/pellet-hops-domestic/?sort=featured&page=2 or http://www.yakimavalleyhops.com/ There are many others, but you'll generally pay $10-$15 per pound unless it's Amarillo or Citra or the like.

    Edit: I'm starting to use dry yeast more and more often. I'll use 05 religiously if it's hop forward. At $4 per pack I'm comfy with dumping it down the drain if I don't plan on brewing another hoppy beer in the next few months.
     
  5. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    Nottingham and US05 dry yeast are my go to dry yeasts. I don't reuse them though. I will wash, harvest, and reuse a liquid yeast cake if its a hard to get yeast or if I know I will be able to use it again in the next few months.

    If you know anybody who owns or works at a brewery, you might be able to ask them if you can buy a sack of base grain off of them. If they are cool with it, the cost will be cheap trust me. Like $20-$25 for a 55 pound sack of canadian 2 row cheap. You can usually buy some PBW off of that person too at a cheap price.

    I buy hops by the pound whenever possible. I also use a Reverse Osmosis water filter so that I can use my tap water (which is horrible without filtering) rather than having to buy bottled water.

    My average cost to make a 10 gallon batch ranges from $20 - $60 with most batches costing $40 and that includes grain, hops, water, propane, yeast, and a misc. expense I factor in to cover small stuff like brewing salts, yeast nutrient, whirfloc, muslin bags, ro filters, etc.
     
  6. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,995) Jul 5, 2010 Virginia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Well, you gotta spend money to save money in this case. You didn't specify that you have a mash tun, but you'll need one. They're easy enough to build. Plenty of how-tos out there, do some research and find the one that will best suit you.

    You'll also need a grain mill. Those things aren't cheap. However, you can buy sacks of base and save some serious money there. Find a base that pretty much works for all of the style that you like. I love Thomas Faucett Golden Promise, personally. Perfect for British styles, gives American Styles a bit of malty-oomph, gives Belgians some malty sweetness upfront before they finish dry, and its not so big that it would stand out in a weizen. It's pricy, but it's cheaper to buy a sack of that than bits and pieces of US 2row, German or Belgian Pils, and whatever British Pale on a brew by brew basis.

    Start to plan out the next several brews. Make one trip every couple of months to the LHBS to pick up the things you'll need. I tend to buy something I don't really need every time I go. Doing that once every two months vs. every two weeks makes a difference.

    Hops by the pound are the way to go. Don't get too bummed out if you can't get Simcoe, Amarillo, Citra, and whatever else is big at the moment. Figure out what you'll need more often than not (bittering hop, english aroma, german aroma, american aroma), and go from there. Then again, I got my pounds of Amarillo, Simcoe, and Centennial this past harvest, and am still trying to use up the Citra from the year before. So, got mine, fuck you, I guess.

    Start washing yeast or use dry. US-05 is great for hoppy beers. I will buy nothing else for American style ales.

    Do a "loose ends" brown or amber ale here and there to use up the bits of specialty grains that you have leftover every few months.
     
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  7. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    going to all grain, after you conviently forget the cost of the mash tun, will save you alot of money over extract no matter how you buy your supplies. so right there you can justify the switch.

    find a lhbs that will crush grain or has a mill for you to use. mills are pricey.

    plan to brew from lower abv to higher abv and reuse yeast whenever possible. reuse three times can be $15 in savings.

    bulk hops do save money, but hops go stale quickly. some hops, cascade famously, do not keep well at all. a vacuum sealer will help. even still dont expect to use 2 ounces at a time from a one pound bag.

    lastly, build everything yourself.
    you make your own beer surely you will make your own brewery too. you can usually save money if you do the labor.
    Cheers.
     
  8. JimSmetana

    JimSmetana Initiate (0) May 11, 2012 Illinois

    Mash tun is easy for me. I have an existing cooler that measures out to about 60qt. Other than size its perfect.
    I own it already. The drain come out easily and is at the bottom. Not 2" off the bottom.

    If it seems like its not working I can always buy something else and re-assemble this one back to a regular cooler if it doesn't smell of barley too much.

    I like those "by the pound" hop prices. Beats 1.75 to $2.25 per ounce.

    Thanks for the tips.
     
  9. JimSmetana

    JimSmetana Initiate (0) May 11, 2012 Illinois

    Yes. My LHBS said I can bring in grain anytime to crush until I can scrounge up an affordable mill.

    Dont hops keep well if they are sealed and frozen? For what you spend I would think a vacuum sealer is a good investment to seal hops and specialty grains.
     
  10. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    thats a good deal with your grains. sure as you buy the mill from the LHBS its a good deal all around. i buy my base from the local and get the specialty online. they are fine with that. if they stock weyermen chocolate wheat, i'd just as soon get it locally.
    i can scrounge around my stash anytime, plan my brew, and buy the base grain on brew day. no need to keep 50 pound sacks of grain in the house, and the cost difference is maybe a few bucks, if that. its not such a deal when you only have to drop $20 and a few $ more for the specialty grains for an entire brew.

    Ray Daniels Designing Great Beers has an extensive summary of how hops keep, both frozen and unfrozen. its interesting reading.

    frozen, oxygen free, light free is best. commercial are hops packaged with nitrogen and even those will degrade in a year, maybe more and maybe not enough to matter. a vacu seal works great but is not entirely oxygen free. in addition, some hops like Cascade just dont store well no matter what. i mean, one pound of hops is alot. even if you brew a few times a month, thats alot of 2,4 or 6 ounce additions. you better like that hop! there are some good hops that dont degrade after one year or only degrade in bittering ability (use a bit more). thats your best bet.
    good luck with your all grain adventure, and be sure to ask questions frequently.
    Cheers.
     
  11. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    Hops do best in the freezer. Many of us have a vacuum sealer or ball jars dedicated to storage.
     
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