All-Grain Too Dark

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by pants678, Mar 14, 2020.

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  1. pants678

    pants678 Maven (1,374) Jan 26, 2009 California
    Trader

    Searching showed plenty of extract & partials coming out too dark. In my case, though, it's an attempted all-grain tripel. Deets...

    58% Pilsner
    21% Wheat Malt
    6% Flaked Barley
    6% Flaked Wheat
    9% Clear Candi Sugar (rocks not syrup)
    Wyeast 1214

    Mash (based on Candi Syrup's posted Tripel Karmeliet recipe)
    45m @ 122°F
    60m @ 147°F
    20m @ 162°F
    15m @ 170°F

    Result

    Guesses as to why it's brown? Something during fermentation that I'm not thinking of? I'm also aware that's a lot of wheat. I was screwing around, wanted to know what would come out.
     
  2. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    What was your mash pH?

    ETA: was the wort dark, or just the finished beer?

    More ETA: rereading the OP, it sounds like your wort must have looked okay. If that's the case, I'd be looking at oxidation.
     
    #2 VikeMan, Mar 14, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2020
  3. pants678

    pants678 Maven (1,374) Jan 26, 2009 California
    Trader

    Things I should've listed: reverse osmosis water, BIAB method.

    Wort was yellow/orange. I can't think of where oxidation would've happened. I siphon from kettle to carboy, then from carboy to bottling bucket. I keep the stream against the side to reduce splashing. Priming solution is gently stirred in.

    pH: IDK, no meter, no strips. I should start looking into that.
     
  4. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Can you explain what you mean by "keep the stream against the side?"
     
  5. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,995) Jul 5, 2010 Virginia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    RO water with no salts? Not an expert on water treatment, but you need to have some minerals in there. That could be the cause.

    Other than that, I'd say oxidation. Easy to end up with on most homebrew systems, and now that they're so commonplace, I'm coming across a lot of commercial NEIPAs that I'm thinking are in the beginning stages of oxidation based on color.
     
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  6. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Maven (1,374) May 2, 2006 Utah

    If it is oxidation, it should be fairly obvious in the flavor. Cheers!
     
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  7. Brewday

    Brewday Zealot (721) Dec 25, 2015 New York

    Working yeast are your best friend. I would add some sugar to the fermentor maybe 30-1hr before you transfer to get the yeast working and keep the hose end inside the wort. I like to do this when i transfer from the kettle with some yeast starter. Sometimes those auto siphons leak air into the stream.
     
  8. pants678

    pants678 Maven (1,374) Jan 26, 2009 California
    Trader

    Okey dokey. How much & what kind of sugar?
     
  9. Brewday

    Brewday Zealot (721) Dec 25, 2015 New York

    Learn this. https://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/ There's style guidelines on the left and sugar options on the right. Put 1/4 of the solution in the fermentor to get the yeast working.
     
  10. pants678

    pants678 Maven (1,374) Jan 26, 2009 California
    Trader

    Placing the spout of the siphon as close to the side of the carboy as possible as opposed to letting it hang free in the middle. I hope I'm conveying that right.
     
  11. pants678

    pants678 Maven (1,374) Jan 26, 2009 California
    Trader

    I'm familiar with the priming calculator! But you're saying add sugar whenever I transfer? So from kettle to fermenter and from fermenter to bottling bucket?
     
  12. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Ah. I was thinking you might mean that you let it stream down the side, which would be e recipe for even more oxidation. And it's good to avoid agitation as much as possible, but there's really no way to avoid all oxygen pickup when bottling. The yeast will use some of that O2, but they don't have an unlimited need for it.
     
  13. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    For those of you who subscribe to BYO, in the latest issue (March/April 2020) there is an article in the Advanced Brewing section (written by Colin Kaminski) addressing the topic of oxidation.

    He has a Chart 2: Sources and elimination of cold-side oxidation.

    A snippet from the article:

    “One of the best ways to deal with oxygen is bottle/keg conditioning. This is the process of adding sugar and yeast to the final package and encouraging a final fermentation to carbonate the beer while scavenging oxygen. In normal homebrewing there is enough yeast in the beer at the end of fermentation to eliminate yeast addition and one only needs to add sugar.”

    Cheers!
     
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  14. Brewday

    Brewday Zealot (721) Dec 25, 2015 New York

    Here you would only add some yeast before transfer. Probably unnecessary but i figure why decant all the yeast in the sink and it will get them working right away to suck up any oxygen. Another thing you can do is bottle right before the yeast are finished but that's hard to time.
     
  15. paulaner

    paulaner Zealot (557) Jan 10, 2004 Wisconsin

    Or you can know your fermentation, and transfer it with a little extract left and let it carbonate in the final vessel whether that be keg/bottle/can and then you're not introducing o2 by adding the sugar and yeast solution.
     
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