This may be a dumb question, but I have been wondering lately... Does it do any good to have multiple crystal malts on a grain bill? Or do they kinda average/balance each other out? For example, is there a difference between the following two grain bills? If so, what? Grain bill #1 1 lb 10L 1 lb 120L Grain bill #2 2 lb 60L Hope that makes sense. Thanks! Bryan
Follow-up: This is a hypothetical question. I am aware that a batch made from 2 lbs of grain would suck.
Big difference between same amounts of 10L + 120L v 60L. Each crystal/caramel malt has its' own unique flavor/sweetness. Neither could compose your entire grain bill as neither combo has any enzymes for a mash (not base grains). Read How To Brew by Palmer...it's all there. Cheers
I asked this same question when I toured Briess. I do not use caramel malts very often (almost never) but what the Briess rep said was that between Caramel 10-60 you could use them to average each other out. From 60-120 you could do the same (or from 20-80, 40-100, etc.) but that as you get further apart it doesn't yield the same results. Personally, I have never tried doing it other than once in a pale ale recipe when I needed 40l and what I had was 20 and 60. It was such a small amount though that it would have been hard to tell a difference. When I took over as brewmaster at Blue Pants, I deleted caramel malts from the pale ale recipe completely. Obviously the color would be the same. I would be willing to bet that the flavor is very similar based on the conversation with Briess, but I would bet it's not 100% the same. They recommended staying within 60L for averaging.
You would have two different beers if you had your base malt and either of those two combos. I use this when I try to shoot for flavors: http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Products/Caramel.htm
Thanks for the responses. One reason I ask, is I am currently drinking a barley wine that came out fantastically, but could use just a little more complexity. As I was going over the Grain bill, I used 10 L and 120 L. So, the thought occurred to me, was I wasting my time because 60 L could do the job just as well? I am interested to hear more, both anecdotal and scientific
Thank you, that makes total sense. To summarize, here's what Briess has to say: 10L: Candylike sweetness, mild caramel 60L: Sweet, pronounced caramel 120L: Pronounced caramel, burnt sugar, raisiny, prunes So with a 50/50 combo of 10L and 120L, you'd get a little candylike sweetness and a little burnt sugar, raisiny, prune. With a double shot of 60L you get sweet, pronounced caramel. I'm gonna keep using multiple crystal malts at multiple degrees
More 120 or a little special B might get the complexity that you want. I guess it depends on what you are looking for. Now granted most of my knowledge of these things comes from reading. I use a lot of different things, but can't say I can really say this gives more that then other things just yet...
What was the rest of your recipe? IMO, the key to a great barleywine is a high quality, flavorful base malt (I like Crisp No. 9 Maris Otter, Thomas Fawcett Maris Otter is a close second), flavorful English ale yeast (Fullers or Boddingtons are my favorite strains), and a long boil. Like I mentioned before, I rarely use caramel/crystal malts, but when I do, I avoid Briess. I find their's to be candy-like with the sweetness, one dimensional, and even small amounts seem cloying to me. Weyermann Special W can be a great addition to a barleywine
This is the response that will serve you well: Just can't find anything more insightful to add, as, IMO, if you're looking to add "complexity" to a barleywine by using crystal malt, you are barking up the wrong tree.
Well, I'm not looking to add any Crystal. My issue and the question are not entirely related I am a BIAB guy, so I actually use extracts for barleywines because I don't want to deal with that much grain. I'm usually not too concerned about my beer meeting any particular style guidelines cuz that's not why I brew in the first place Off the top of my head, the other specialty grains in my recipe are chocolate malts and Carafa III. To address the issue, not the question, I'll probably add some special B or aromatic malt. The Crystal is already in the recipe, both 10L and 120L - those are going to stay because I like them I respect the rights of others to disagree, as the case may be
So....you don't care if your beer tastes like a Barleywine? In that case, brew whatever you want and/or buy your Barleywine at the store.
@Bryan12345 Playing off what @honkey said above, if you want to keep the C10 and C120 try a British caramel malt instead of Breiss. There is no comparison, the British malts are way better/complex. You might also think about using something like Maris Otter for the base and then adding some Light DME to get to your desired gravity. That would also boost the "complexity". Also, props for the thread title, made me smile
My last barleywine used .5lbs british dark crystal wyeast 1056 A rwo row base from a Colorado maltster. Despite these things I have a wonderful barleywine on my hands. I will agree that a quality base malt will go a long way, I prefer chico on big barleywines simply for attenuation purposes. Big beers don't need any help with esters for me, it's all about a clean malt profile.
