Release Allagash: Pilsner with Brettanomyces

Discussion in 'Beer News & Releases' started by Todd, Jul 12, 2018.

  1. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,519) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff

    https://www.allagash.com/blog/pilsner-with-brettanomyces-new-from-allagash/

     
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  2. wasatchback

    wasatchback Disciple (318) Jan 12, 2014 Utah
    Beer Trader

    Interesting.. looks like they coferment with lager yeast and Brett. Amazed the Brett does anything at those temps.

    Wilderness made a Pilsner last year or the year before that was bottle conditioned with Brett that I thought was really cool.

    I’ve defintley comboed a small amount of a Brett beer with a Pilsner I had on tap. Tastes awesome.
     
    dshatel likes this.
  3. thuey

    thuey Aspirant (279) Nov 13, 2015 California

    Hope they bottle that at some point. I'd love to try!
     
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  4. donspublic

    donspublic Poo-Bah (1,620) Aug 4, 2014 Texas
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    Boulevard did an imperial pils with brett earlier this year. Had it on tap, so didn't get a chance to review it. Thought it was pretty solid, not much funk on the palate, nose was interesting and was a tad bit dryer. I don't think it ever saw a bottle.
     
  5. LeRose

    LeRose Meyvn (1,292) Nov 24, 2011 Massachusetts
    Premium Member

    I'll be all over this if they ever bottle it...
     
  6. eldoctorador

    eldoctorador Zealot (579) Dec 12, 2014 California

    Maybe it's good, but sounds an awful combination
     
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  7. keithmurray

    keithmurray Meyvn (1,183) Oct 7, 2009 Connecticut

    *Cedric the Entertainer voice*

    Oh hell nah......
     
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  8. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Savant (953) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member

    Agreed.

    Phenolic pilsner? No thanks.
     
  9. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (2,060) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    Much as I like Allagash beers, this one sounds like a trainwreck. I can't imagine the Pilsner character will survive alongside the Brett. JMO.
     
  10. MacCherry

    MacCherry Initiate (0) Oct 19, 2012 Massachusetts

    I made a kõlsch last summer that, due to my sloppy technique, introduced me to the wild brett that evidently lives in my area. Surprised the heck out of me after primary fermentation: i almost pitched the whole batch. But the bullet, added a little honey, and bottle fermented for two weeks. Boy am I glad I did. Terrific, bright, flavorful, and refreshing. Best summer beer I ever made. I'll try to reproduce it next year with a culture Brett.
     
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  11. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Savant (953) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member

    Usually I'm an Allagash fanboy, but this is an exception. Reason? Although it might be a delicious beer, this is not a pilsner. It's a brett beer. You can't have both in one beer.
     
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  12. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Savant (953) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member

    Skip the kolsch bit and just do a 100% brett beer. Much easier that way.
     
  13. TongoRad

    TongoRad Poo-Bah (2,380) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    I don't think it'll be a train wreck; and it's very probably a tasty beer. But I'm also sceptical that it'll be enough of a Pilsner to warrant the description.

    Fwiw, if it's the same culture that's in Little Brett, it's going to be more floral/fruity than funky, and pretty delicate to boot.
     
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  14. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (2,060) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    So, they would have been better off calling it a Kölsch? :grin:
     
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  15. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Savant (953) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member

    Their house brett culture, a B. bruxellensis strain affectionately called Brett Michaels, is a big ester former, but if you give it enough time, those esters will fade and reveal some significant phenols.
     
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  16. TongoRad

    TongoRad Poo-Bah (2,380) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    Hah! Good one!
     
  17. GreesyFizeek

    GreesyFizeek Poo-Bah (5,520) Mar 6, 2013 New York
    Beer Trader

    It certainly sounds a bit odd, but since it's Allagash, I'm sure it'll come out great.
     
  18. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,571) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member

    From the linked article:

    “We dual ferment Pilsner with Brettanomyces with our house Brettanomyces yeast strain, as well as a Bohemian lager strain.”

    And:

    “Normally, we ferment our beers at around 65-70 degrees. For this beer, we ferment between 50-55, and then “lager” it after that.”

    I have brewed with Brett a few times – always a co-pitch with a Belgian ale yeast strain and fermented warm (> 70 degrees F). I have no experience with how a Brett yeast strain will express flavors when fermented cool (i.e., 50-55 degrees F in this case).

    Has anybody out there fermented a beer that was co-pitched with Brett and a beer yeast strain and more importantly fermented cool (50ish degrees F). Did the Brett provide much in terms of Brett associated flavors (e.g., phenolics) when fermented in those cool conditions?

    Cheers!
     
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  19. wasatchback

    wasatchback Disciple (318) Jan 12, 2014 Utah
    Beer Trader

    Why not?

    Also about the earlier comment in regards to phenolics.. their Brett strain is a total fruit bomb. Have you had Little Brett? It tastes and smells like sweet tarts. I doubt there’s any perceivable phenolics in this beer. I’ve used their Brett strain and it’s awesome, incredibly fruity. Beers I made with it are on my just now starting to show any signs of funk and they’ve been on bottles for 4 months, and in fermenters for three months before that. The fact that they “found” that strain in their brewery is amazing. Also the fact that it’s just available on tap and lost likely kept cold it would never develop any phenols over time.
     
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  20. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,571) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member

    How did you use that Brett strain? Did you use it as a co-pitch with a beer yeast strain? If so, what was your primary fermentation temperature?

    Cheers!
     
  21. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Savant (953) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member

    It's a B. brux. strain, which means that although it's a big ester producer, it is definitely POF+.

    It's interesting, yes, but I wouldn't say that it's amazing. There's brett everywhere, especially brux and anomalus species, as they have a teleomorph/sporulating form (Dekkera).

    Although ester hydrolysis is sped up with increased temperatures, esters will still hydrolyze at refrigerator temperatures. Much more slowly, but they definitely will. The phenols are always there, the esters simply obscure them, so when the esters start to fade the phenols become a more prominent aspect of the beer. It's only a matter of time.
     
  22. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Savant (953) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member

    They bottle Confluence, Interlude, Midnight Brett, and Tiarna with it.

    I'd be interested in these answers as well.

    FWIW, brett sp. do not need sacch. sp. to produce phenols and as long as fermentation temperatures are around 70F, that strain of B. brux will produce a lot of esters.
     
  23. wasatchback

    wasatchback Disciple (318) Jan 12, 2014 Utah
    Beer Trader

    Their Brett strain is available from a yeast supplier... they don’t say it’s specifically theirs but if you follow the crumbs...

    If three month old bottles of Little Brett don’t display any perceivable phenols then this beer only available on tap at select accounts won’t ever display any either.
     
  24. Amendm

    Amendm Aspirant (210) Jun 7, 2018 Rhode Island

    I would try this. I looked at the Allagash locator, Pilsner with Brett is not mentioned yet.
    I might have to break cover and check out a bar for this one, Mass. more likely than R.I.
     
  25. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Savant (953) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member

    Please see the BJCP guidelines to find out why an ester forward pilsner is not appropriate.

    Is that a good enough source, powers that be?
     
  26. wasatchback

    wasatchback Disciple (318) Jan 12, 2014 Utah
    Beer Trader

    ??? Who cares that it’s not appropriate. I don’t think anyone here would ever be under the assumption that it would be appropriate nor did Allagash when they made it. Do you only drink appropriate beers? The fact that you write it off simply on semantics is odd.

    I will probably never get to try it but if I lived in the Northeast I would definitely seek it out. Sounds really interesting, might be weird, might be rad, might create interesting flavor profiles you’ve never experienced before. Props to Allagash for continuing to produce innovative products, especially for a brewery of their size.
     
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  27. eppCOS

    eppCOS Defender (676) Jun 27, 2015 Colorado
    Premium Member

    I'll keep my Pilsner separate from any Brett, thanks. I don't feel like infecting a perfectly good beer style. #GetOffMyLawn!
     
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  28. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Savant (953) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member

    Nobody's writing off anything. Simple stated that it should not be called a pilsner, because it is not. Labels and names need to mean something.
     
  29. SveNss0N

    SveNss0N Disciple (333) Feb 16, 2014 Massachusetts
    Beer Trader

  30. TheGent

    TheGent Meyvn (1,143) Jun 29, 2010 New Jersey
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    Although I’d try this out of curiosity, I’m thinking that when I drink a pilsner I do not want any of the flavors that I associate with Brett.
     
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  31. thebeers

    thebeers Poo-Bah (2,112) Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    Victory made a Dry-Hopped Brett Pils as part of their Blackboard Series. I wasn't a fan, but I'd definitely give this one a try.
     
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  32. pinyin

    pinyin Disciple (337) Sep 19, 2013 New York

    I wonder if this brett pilsner will be anything like Pizza Boy's Eternal Sunshine, which was an amazing, albeit expensive beer.
     
  33. TonyLema1

    TonyLema1 Poo-Bah (1,682) Nov 19, 2008 South Carolina
    Premium Member Beer Trader