American Breweries and Traditional Styles

Again, it seems like it's the ones who have never experienced these beers first-hand at the source who are the most vocal when trying to dismiss them as "nostalgic" or relics. I feel sorry for them, honestly...

 

So you're saying our long term memory has no flaws and plays no tricks on us?

 

So you also believe that long term memory is perfect and never plays tricks on us?

 

True, my mind isn't yet made up that beer was 100% better once than it is now. I enjoy many modern takes, and I enjoy many traditional takes.

I see your mind is made up that traditional is 100% tastier than modern, or did I misunderstand what the 100% meant? I wonder how many have their minds made up, and agree with you?

 

I'm not sure how that's relevant. I'm talking about the here and now.

 

Well @cavedave was talking about the effects of memory for what happened back then on current beliefs, etc. and since you responded to that post, it seemed relevant.

 

I guess he's talking about my annual trips to Germany and how I forget what I tasted after a few months?

 

No, you misunderstood. I mean that if I find a well made AAL, Vienna, etc. delicious and pleasing it's 100% because of the taste, and not because of any overriding factors.

Same with a hoppy brett Grisette, etc.

 

Noap. Wasn't talking about you, but human memory in general. Something that is true for all of us.

 

More context adds to greater depth of understanding for sure. We wouldn't be on this website otherwise. But it's not necessary for the primary enjoyment. I also believe that natural state trumps natural habitat, and that's easier to experience to boot.

But I just reread what I responded to, and I do take exception to the notion that there is little to enjoy in some styles other than respect for how they are made.

 

Sure it does. But cavedave questioned whether nostalgia wasn't a bigger factor in appreciation of traditional styles than taste (remembered or experienced daily/weekly/yearly...whatever). I find that question and the assumptions behind it absurd and, honestly, quite sad.

Then again, ignorance can be a source of bliss I suppose.

 

Yeah I see what you are after in your post and deleted a follow on after reading your comments to @cavedave. But for the record, I didn't read his comment as saying the enjoyment was only about respect/nostagia but rather suggesting that something like those factors have an effect that enhances memory of quality and enjoyment.

So it was in that context I wrote my question.

 

But you see there is empirical research that has demonstrated that such effects can in fact be bigger factors than something like taste.

I agree that lack of knowledge can have an effect but the failure to recognize the "Sins of Memory" has consequences as well.

Since there are demonstrable cases where the effects of "what used to be" can in fact outweigh recognition of what is true now I don't see him as having raised an unreasonable speculation.

 

Well, I was referring more to nostalgia for beers of a bygone era, and understanding the dislike of non traditional takes on styles of the modern era. I wondered if that reverence for the old and disdain for the new was completely due to the old tasted better than the new. I don't mind your changing it to your meaning at all, and appreciate your commentary.

 

If cavedave was talking about beers (or iterations) that no longer exist, then I apologize to him for misrepresenting him. However, it seemed to me he was conflating old iterations with current (or recent) extant "styles" that are considered "traditional."

 

Ditto here, that's sure the way I read it.

 

Using cranberries in brewing a Belgian Pale Ale!?!

That brewer must be a nut.

What's next? Using grapefruit to brew a Tripel!?!

Cheers!

 

Malted barley was imported into the US a century ago - in relatively small amounts, given the time and cost of transportation (esp. compared to the price of domestic malt) and, then, high tariffs. Looks like it peaked at over 200k bushels imported into the US in 1890, the year the tariff on both barley and malt was enacted. By the early 1900s most US malt imports came from Germany and Austria-Hungary, not the UK.

According to the 1937 USDA Agricultural Year Book:

On the east coast, the New York State Agricultural Experiment Station in Geneva NY did extensive work on new hop varietals after Repeal.

The only thing stopping brewers of a century ago from the above was pride it their product and a lack of desire to create the "Flavored Malt Beverage" category.

This is parody, right?

 

ESB isn't a style. It's just a type of Pale Ale.

 

For me, it is not about traditional v innovation. It is about truth in labeling (to overstate just a bit).

Suppose I had never had an Oktoberfest beer, and I picked up one of the "innovative" takes calling itself an Oktoberfest bier, even using the German spelling. What am I getting? Certainly not an Oktoberfest, and as a consumer, I have been misled.

The last genuine Oktoberfest bier I had was in the real Oktoberfest festival in Munich some years ago. I don't even remember which brewery's hall I was in. Why should I have to go through trial and error with one "innovation" after another before finding the beer labeled "Oktoberfest" that is an actual Oktoberfest beer?

Well, as I said well above, it is all about marketing. Even Surly, with their out-front clearly labeled non-traditional Oktoberfest bier has a banner and a tent and a festival to sell beer. We can rant all we want, but the business is ruled by the dollar.