American Influence

Precisely. Problem is, 90% of the new stuff is crap. When you rarely drink more than one of any given beer, as there's always the next "tick" vying for your attention, the "Pepsi Challenge" effect is at work in full force -- where for the first 8-12 oz., the bold flavors manage to shine, but when you actually want to drink beer, you're faced with palate-wrecking hops/excessive ABV/cloying, overdone chocolate/vanilla/pumpkin/dark fruit flavors "additions." The most disappointing beers I had from Franconia on my last trip -- and believe me, it pains me to say this -- were from places I otherwise have immense respect for: Weyermann Maltings and Friedel (both brewing largely in the style(s) you're describing. The stuff is just not any good.

Now, if/when these beers get any good, I'll be the first one to be there drinking them. Until then, I'm sticking with the folks who have sustained Franconian brewing for centuries. If I had some (granted, unsolicited) advice for you, it would be to simply make a trip to Franconia and search out and visit the originators/sustainers of these styles before patronizing the new places that purport to be everything to everyone. You may be surprised at where your allegiances lie afterwards. On the other hand, perhaps you, too, have already made up your mind? Prost!

 

Jeez, I look away from BA for two seconds....

I think Herr Burgess makes some good points, but I agree mostly with Boddhitree...if they're good, then they're good. It's unfair to assume that all these beers are going to be crap, or that he won't be able to brew any of them well simply because he makes a specialty beer each month. I (admittedly as a non-home-brewer) am very interested in that chestnut beer (October). It's very interesting - chestnuts are of course abundant locally, and I'm wondering if Germans (and/or Franconians) would be quicker to accept an "adjunct" such as chestnuts versus some other adjunct such as rice or what have you. I would love to try one of those.

Off-topic, HB have a good trip...I know you're going to Päffgen for your Kölsch fix, but while you're in town see if you can check out Mühlen Kölsch. I'd be interested in hearing your opinion if you haven't already tried it.

 

“When I lived there, there were 380 breweries within an hour of Bamberg; now there are around 300.” I see the ‘trend’ there and I recognize your overall concerns. Still, 300 breweries in a region the size of Franconia is pretty darn good (I know, 380 is ‘better’).

I guess we will have to see how the Franconian beer market/culture ‘plays out’. I am not generally a betting man but I would be willing the bet that 20 years from now the majority (>50%) of the beer consumed in Franconia will be of the ‘traditional’ nature.

Cheers!

 

Ha! Nice. My wife is meeting with a client right across the street from Muehlen. Definitely on my list, and I will definitely report back!

Believe me, I don't simply write off a brewery simply because they are experimenting. On the contrary, I've spent lots and lots of time and money in the past few years visiting, supporting, and drinking the beers from such breweries. The problem is, they simply aren't any good (at least not when compared to the beers I have drunk in Bavaria at the source). I have literally tried 100s of German-style U.S. craft beers from dozens and dozens of the new generation of brewers. Of those, two (yes 2) breweries have actually been as good as their German counterparts: Olde Mecklenburg and New Glarus. So I guess my rants are intended as cautionary tales: you're likely going to waste a lot of time (and even more money...a 22 oz. Gose cost me as much as I'd pay for a case of Schlenkerla in Germany) following this trend.

I'll add an extra caveat for Jack: while I have given up buying these overpriced disappointments in the bottle shops, I have not abandoned my plan to visit places like Philly and Denver to drink some local offerings in their original setting. I'm just done shelling out major money for mediocre, and frequently non-fresh, products.

 

Man, Mühlen Kölsch is the best of all the Kölsch. Tell her to get her hands on a bottle or 2 to bring back!

But you don't know till you try. And, if you look carefully at this Pax Bräu's resume, he's been around the world and probably tied his fair share or good and bad beer, so coming home to combine the 2 seems like a worthy, noble attempt at bring new and old world back together. Don't forget, those Pumpkin, Chestnut beers are probably as weird to the locals as seeing a UFO land in the brewery.

Also, I've tried a few of Weyerman's unusual attempts, such as a rasberry weizen, and another one that I can't remember, both very forgettable. They were weak, didn't get the fruit flavor or the weizen right. However, if it's a first attempt, they might need more batches to get it right. Which makes me think of the Ami's attempts you mention of Märzens, etc which you also found weak. Copies tend to be weak if they're not very familiar with the orginals of the style. I remember the first craft beers I drank in the 90's were also too thin and still had a long way to go to match the styles they were trying to match. Only later when they were more familiar did the quality truly improve to world class.

And finally, I haven't been to Franken much, just one weekend trip a few years ago for beer in Bamberg. I was impressed, and this summer I would love to do a week bicycle tour from brewery to brewery, but till them I have to have them delivered to my doorstep.

And as to the Brauereiausterben, or "brewery death," that's a national phenomena, only more pronounced in Franken b/c of the concentration of legacy breweries, and that's probably unavoidable, though regrettable. But then again, not all small German brewers make great beer, no matter how long they've been in business or how much we romanticize it. I've been to more than one small German brewery where the beers were mediocre and the variety the same old boring ones.

 

I'll (hopefully) do one better -- I'm actually driving here there and will have a few hours to kill while she's meeting with her client. I think you'll know where to find me

Very true. I actually left the Schlenkerla tavern to walk the 2 miles or so through town to Weyermann -- not just for the interview I did and the tour -- but to try their beers. My buddy and I liked the Suessholz Porter, but the Rauch and Schlotfegerla were literally drainpours. Again, hate to say it, but they have a looonnnng way to go to start brewing beers that can compete with even the most "boring" local Kellerbier.

I also traveled out of my way to the Kreuzberg Keller and made Friedel my first stop. Again, a big disappointment. Luckily it was literally a matter of hopping over to Rittmayer (their Keller is literally connected to Friedel) for a Seidla of Rauchbier. Yum.

All of which is to say I will definitely try the Pax if I see it. It's just that years of experience have tempered my expectations considerably.

EDIT: if you make it for a bike tour, let me know if you want some tips on loops that will take you to some excellent places. It's one of the best ways to get around when beer hunting in Franken.

 

Here's the kicker for me:
Pax Bräu Vollbier - 6 Flaschen

32,90 €

Sorry. Even with those being liter bottles, if I'm in Franken there's no way in hell any beer is going to justify that amount of money. I could get a dozen Schlenkerla at the tavern directly from the wooden barrel -- and probably 20 Seidla in a beergarden out in the country -- for that price. Sorry, I just don't get the mentality. Maybe the whole problem is that I'm just geizig.

 

Sure, if you live in there it's all cheap. It works out to 2.74€ per 0.5Ls, which is about 1€ to 1.30€ more than the average bottle of German beer in online shops. Is it a lot better than all other beers? Maybe, but I was as equally interested in the 1L bottles as I was the beer inside. I'll reuse them for my homebrews, and the 1L bottles, EMPTY, cost 2.5€ each at Hopfen und Mehr's site, so for me this is a HELLUVA deal! In other words, as I see it, the beer cost me only 24 cents!

Back to your original argument. You claim you can buy Schlenkerla much cheaper directly at the tavern. First, which tavern? Do you live in Bamberg now? Can you buy it today where you live at that same price? Neither can I, for I don't live in Bamberg, though I live closer than you. Driving there and back to buy it at the tavern would cost in gas... over 30€. Thus, specious argument. Second, I'm not fond of Schenkerla. Fact is, I'm not much of a Rauchbier fan. Third, as you can imagine, the convenience of having a rare, unknown beer to test by having it delivered to your door when you have neither the time nor capacity to get it cheaper, like driving almost 2 hours to buy Pax Bräu, or to Bamberg. You should know there aren't any "bottle shops" that sell hundreds of beers here like in the USA (save Mahruns in Pfungstadt), so the only way to try this and most of the other Bayernbiere is to order it online at a higher price as I did. How much Schlenkerla do you drink every month at tavern prices? You're not factoring the airfare, train or rental car, hotel, and other costs into you equation when you visit here. I wonder how much it costs per beer if you added up all those costs and divided it by the numbers of beers you drink during your stay here? I just pay a little more than the average beer and shipping. BTW... I hope you get to enjoy a Schenkerla soon.

 

I guess it's a matter of value. If the beer is good/great, people will pay it.

I commend him on thinking/working outside of the box, which is very uncommon in Germany nowadays.

 

Good points. Like I said, I'm probably just spoiled/geizig...plus I may be missing my old Bamberg favorites (Rauchbier, Kellerbier, etc.) the way you're missing your U.S. favorites (grass is always greener, and all that jazz...). Still, I don't purchase much Schlenkerla here -- or any other specialty German beers that have achieved popularity among the beer geek set -- because they have become prohibitively expensive here; 3-5 years ago I could get Celebrator, Ayinger, Schlenkerla, etc. for around $2-3 per bottle. Now those beers have doubled in price...a fact we can't simply attribute to inflation, rather it's supply and demand generated by beer geeks and sites like this one. My real point, I suppose, is that I've been burned 9 times out of 10 when trying new/experimental breweries so I'm pretty much done spending money on these places. In closing, I will add that despite all my skepticism I somehow still find myself picking up new offerings at the bottle shop. I tell myself while I am doing it, "You realize you're going to be disappointed...." and somehow I do it anyway. Can't escape my American DNA I suppose Regardless, I hope these beers, and the others you purchased, turn up some real gems. As you said earlier, that's the key: finding -- and drinking -- good beer. Prost!

 

I don't have the time and nerve to reply to all this in detail but I'm with Herr Burgess.

Surprise, surprise.

 

Bier Aus Franken, a Facebook page dedicated to drinking beers from Franken and then writing about them (guess where I got the idea) post these pics on FB about Pax Bräu. This unfortunately isn't the exact pamphlet I was working from, for I was looking at the one for 2012, and lo and behold, here's the one for 2013! Check out the very interesting selection, especially January's!



To see the rest of the page, you'd have to be a member of FB, which surprisingly not everyone is (sarcasm).
Thus, for those not signed up to FB, here are the pics of labels posted. I love how the labels are actually interesting and for marketing not just the same old "Reinheitsgebot" bullshit or some pic of nature, but real cool exemplars of graphic design.



Below the India Summer Ale


Below the Imperial Honey Stout





And this below I believe is a poster, which states Trinken für den Frieden, or Drinking for Freedom... love it.

And below is a really intriguing pic that depicts an interesting interpretation of who drank Märzens, the farmers, and what were they were doing when during the early spring when they drank Märzens after a hard day's work in the fields.

Again, I love the graphic design for the Pumpkin Ale:

Enjoy the feast for the eyes. To herrburgess, please tell me these don't make your mouth water, too.

 

Those labels do look pretty cool but 32 EUR for 6 liters of beer is still tripple of what all the other small and very yummy beers cost. I'm not expecting Oettinger prices (3.95 for a 10 Liter case...), I'm willing to pay quite a bit more and I usually buy directly from the brewery so they get a better percentage of what I pay but I do draw the line somewhere. What they ask is what we call "Puff Preise".

 

One question regarding the various labels: The ingredients do not list Chestnuts (Brown Ale), Honey (Imperial Honey Stout), or Pumpkin (Pumpkin Ale). What am I missing?

 

I simply posted the photos of labels on the Bier Aus Franken FB site, no more, no less. You're missing nothing. They didn't post the others, so if you're interested in those others, I please write them a quick message on FB to tell them they're slacking. I have the 2012 brochure from which I translated the most interesting info, which is where I got the info about chestnuts, etc.

 

This just in - Google Translate is your friend

Paulaner macht Whiskeyfass auf
In München geht jetzt auch Paulaner unter die Craft-Brauer: In der "Brauerei am Eiswerk", einem denkmalgeschützten Gebäude auf dem (bisherigen) Areal der Brauerei in zentraler Stadtlage, lässt Paulaner seit einiger Zeit zu Forschungs- und Ausbildungszwecken spezielle Biere herstellen. Die kommen jetzt auf den Markt - neben dem Märzen-Bier Eiswerk 1881 auch ein gerauchtes Joseph´s Bier und der in Whiskey-Fässern ausgelagerte Bourbon-Bock, letzterer für 24,90 Euro pro Champagnerflasche. Die beiden anderen Sorten kosten dem Vernehmen nach rund 3,50 Euro/0,33 Liter.

Paulaner reiht sich mit seinem "Eiswerk" damit ein in die Riege der bayerischen Edel- und Craftbiere, angefangen mit dem Weihenstephaner Infinium, Schneiders TAP X, Maisel´s & Friends aus Bayreuth, Crew Ale aus München, die ihre Biere bislang in Hohenthann herstellen lassen, und viele andere; in München selbst sorgte erst vor kurzem die kleine Giesinger Brauerei für Schlagzeilen, als die Verantwortlichen ankündigten, innerhalb der Stadt umziehen und sich vergrößern zu wollen.

 

Just wondering why some of the Zutaten are not listed in the Zutaten is all.

 

That's a very good question, especially on the Imperial Honey Stout, no mention of honey as an ingredient, or pumpkin in the Pumpkin Ale. Maybe you could e-mail him and ask. I'd bet he speaks English after working in Asia and Russia.

 

Not too many Pumkin beers in the US have pumpkin in the beer. Pumpkin is rather flavorless, so the flavor comes form the spices that make the pumpkin pie taste like pumpkin pie. The spices are not on the Zutaten list either.