Announcing the "2014 Enlightened Hands Society"

Ugh.

 

Something wrong? More than happy to listen to any constructive feedback on the society.

 

It reads like bad adcopy which could have easily been avoided and I find to be off putting. While the 15% discount avoids the agrument that people are paying retail, it's still very close. I don't like the idea in general, at this point it seems like a copy of a copy of a business model. The Bruery starts something similiar up, others including Night Shift copy the business model, and now others are starting to roll in.

Where is the track record of higher end beers in either of these two breweries that would warrant paying ahead of time for unknown commodities? There is no long term benefit to these memberships. It's a donation for you to brew beer, a slight discount, and a party at year's end to celebrate the money grab.

I don't see this as rewarding loyal customers as much as pricing out people who can't or won't spend $250 at one time for beer, or need to make informed decisions on purchases because funds are capped at some point. It seems to reward people that have excess discresionary funds that can take a flyer on the puchase of beer of unknown quality. I know someone like this. I'll send him your way but even he might be hesitant to buy based on the mediocre to slightly above average brews that came out of the Night Shift Barrel Society membership he bought. But hey, he did get a t-shirt. The whole thing is like tipping your waitress before you get seated.

Constructive? Maybe, maybe not. I'll continue to buy your beers that I have liked always and the others that I can taste first. I've been a loyal customer, this doesn't benefit me.

 

Considering that most stores give you a 10-15% discount when purchasing 12 bombers, it's still paying full retail.

From the brewer's side, I see no reason not to offer something like this. Simultaneously, as a consumer, I see no reason to participate--I just don't see how I'm being rewarded by paying essentially full price upfront for beer that I may or may not enjoy. This isn't limited to just this offering--NSB's is similar, and there are probably plenty of out of state ones that share this MO.

I think brewers should work on lobbying the state for the same shipping privileges wineries hold. There's a serious dearth of good "beer of the month" club options, and the convenience of subscribing to something like this (esp as a gift) would go a long way to outweighing the risk of prepaying for unknown beer.

Also, brewers need to figure out more creative ways to offer discounts. This probably needs to be done with the guidance of the MA ABCC, but I suspect there's a way to make it kosher. Either you have special "society" bottles that are priced differently and available only to society members, or you give a quantity discount when you buy 26 or more bottles that applies to multiple visits, or you make the case that since the fixed-price clause in Sec 15 does not appear in Sec 19C, you are in fact allowed to sell discounted bottle to society members.

 

The thing I like about it is being able to make one trip to the brewery to get all the releases in one shot. Although I will probably go up a couple of times a year (I wish all the beers would be cellarable beers)

I agree 15% off isn't a big deal, add a couple of Tekus or some free swag, make a few of the beers just barrel society only releases, and the decision to join or not would be easier.

Still under $10 for a 750ml isn't bad.

 

Yeah, I can understand some of the criticisms outlined above, but overall I'm pretty excited about this. I've honestly never bought enough bombers at one time to get a liquor store's volume discount, but I religiously pick up one or two bottles of the latest Enlightenment Ale releases when they come out, because everything I've had from them has been so utterly solid and delicious.

This offer will ensure I get the Enlightenment releases (at a discount, with my money going straight to the brewer), and I'll also get to explore more Idle Hands releases (and frankly I've enjoyed just about everything that I've tried from them over the past two years).

 

imo that's the issue. not even high end per se b/c we're talking about $10/bomber - but just a reason to pre-pay. for that I need to know I would be getting something awesome AND otherwise hard to purchase. if it's awesome and ends up being easy to get, there's no reason for me to pre-pay for it. if it's hard to purchase but not awesome, there's really no need to buy it at all. and even if it's awesome and hard to purchase, shrug, I could probably trade for it later, but I would basically need a guarantee that 10 or 11 of these beers end up being amazing and otherwise hard to purchase, and I don't this brewery has this track record.

I think the brewery would be better served by building up that reputation first. if you are Jacks Abby and I know you can churn out various world class beers, maybe this works.

These societies are great deals for the business b/c they get cash flow now, and cash is always a good thing.

 

My main constructive criticism: You're (probably) making me pay upfront for some beers I don't want. If there were a list of all beers that would be coming out (with recipe descriptions for those not out yet), including maybe one or two "bonus" beers that give you flexibility to create new recipes during the year and include them in the package, I'd be much more inclined to sign up for this, assuming I liked what I saw. Even better (if legally possible), allowing the user to customize their allocation (with limits on some of the bottles) to ensure they are getting mostly the bottles they want.

 

You could/should give society members a free growler or two (empty is fine) when they pick up their first allotment. If part of the goal is to encourage repeat visits, this would be an inexpensive way to do so.

Edit: maybe it's a little tacky to hand someone an empty bottle and say "hey, wanna pay to fill it up?" Instead, you could write on the membership card (or include a coupon) that says "please present this and we'll cover the purchase price of a growler ($5) with your first fill."

 

Bad adcopy aside (blame the engineer in me), I’m glad that you brought up the points that you did because many of them I completely agree with. And that is why the Enlightened Hands Society is designed the way that it is -- to NOT be an exclusionary club. All of the beers that are part of the society will also be available for purchase by the general public (some more so than others) and many of the beers we’ve also released in the past (and therefore there is a track record for them). It truly is designed to be a reward to loyal customers in every way shape and form that we can manage; hence the discount, hence the end of year party. Maybe we didn’t do a good enough job highlighting those facts but it’s all there.

If you’ve ever talked to me or anyone of our staff about “barrel societies” you already know how much we hate the concept of creating exclusivity and particularly selling the unknown. Beer is meant to be enjoyed and shared not hoarded, traded and put on shelf to admire. That’s always been our driving philosophy and what guided us when we came up with the concept. We didn’t take from Night Shift, The Bruery, or any other brewery (that we know of). We looked at how farm CSA’s work and “borrowed” from them. The society is not too much different in function and form.

While I realize that $250 may be a lot to spend, I personally think that saving 15% off the regular retail price is a pretty good enticement to pony it up; especially if you were planning on buying the beers throughout the year anyway. What’s the normal case discount at many liquor stores? 10-15%? That’s how we priced it. We wanted to return tangible/quantifiable value to the people who decided that it was worth the price. Not create something that only a few people with the discretionary income could participate in.

You might consider it a money grab, that’s 100% up to you but that’s not how I view it. The funds from this are not going into my or anyone else’s pockets. They will be used to help grow the brewery a tiny bit faster than it would be able to grow w/o it. We don’t have investors, banks, rich uncles or parents to tap into so we “mortgaged” some beer instead. The funds will allow us to expand into Night Shift’s space (once they vacate), and buy some equipment to help improve the quality of our beer which will benefit not just the society members but everyone who visits us and enjoys our products.

I’m more than happy to answer any other questions about the society or listen to other feedback. This is the first year that we are doing it and we fully expect that it’ll require some tweaking for subsequent years but any changes made will always be with an eye towards creating value and not intended exclusivity.

 

One cool addition Night Shift implemented for this coming year is have a society only tap at all times. This is a really great idea IMO. Test batches and/or limited stuff.

 

I think what most of the comments are trying to point out is that exclusion is most of the reason why people buy into clubs. To get something they wouldn't otherwise get. Otherwise a club is just pre-paying for beer you could get otherwise - the discount you are offering isn't enough to encourage the investment.

If you don't want to do that with special beers, I suppose that is understandable. I would suggest some sort of sexy glassware, people are into that. Maybe additional swag. Or discounts on additional purchases.

I don't know how many people go to club only beer parties, since I don't belong to any clubs. A party isn't something that would interest me personally, but I also don't know what your plans are for it. I haven't been following the news on the merger too closely - would this be in the current location? Because I can hang out in random beer warehouses almost any time I want. People might feel differently if it was in a different location or involved food or prizes or something. I am sure you guys haven't worked out the details yet, but more specificity might help on this point.

This comment is not to say you won't get members anyway, or that this is a bad idea. I honestly don't know if BA is even the right place to look for feedback on a program like this. It doesn't seem like your program is for tickers or traders or whale hunters that combined make up a lot of the site. Obviously as a group they (we?) are often more interested in novelty and rarity, which your program will not offer. I am sure you have fans that are buying 20 or more bottles of your beers each year but they may not converge with the group on BA.

 

Trying to completely avoid the appearance of peddling rarity/novelty on this site is some funny ass shit.

you are saying you are doing the same discount as a liquor store would, but the customer has to pay in advance. You are asking for more out of the customer (advanced payment) while not upping what you provide. IMO, if you want my money and then ask me to wait, you gotta make me feel more special than the average Joe/Jane who hands over their money and instantly gets what they paid for.

 

I don't get why everyone has their panties in a bunch over the idea of beer being exclusive. All luxury items are at some level. This is the beer geek entitlement all over again.

Do all of you own Lamborghinis? Were you incensed that the new La Ferrari was sold out to all of their regular customers before any of you had the options? Do you all fly first class? Nope.

Beer, just like everything else, will become stratified. I'm not a society member anywhere, but I don't go to bed every night with rustled jimmies by the thought of other people having exclusive access to a barrel-aged one-off (which, in many cases, is underwhelming).

Anyways, at <$10/beer, this is still cheaper than most 750's out there.

 

I kind of like this particular one, especially the concept of the shindig at the end of 2014 (if it's included cost free in the price of membership).

The prices seem to be downright cheap and I do like the concept of minimizing trips for releases for some of us. I am not overly familiar with the product, but have not ruled this one out.

 

why? Chris isn't marketing to BeerAdvocate members, specifically. if he was, then I would agree with you, but he's marketing to his entire customer base and is polite enough to come here and respond to criticism some have of this society. just because the society doesn't line up with your desires doesn't mean it's bad.

FWIW - I probably won't be joining, because, as someone mentioned above, I don't really see any benefit to me (the % discount is nice but, to be honest, just isn't a motivator for me) but I expect I will probably buy a bottle or two of just about every beer that Enlightenment/Idle Hands puts out anyway, as I already do.

luckily, given the model of this society, if I did choose to join, I wouldn't be paying a lot of money (read: $15+ per bottle, over the cost of brewery's normal bottle releases) up front for beers I know nothing about from an untested brewery. instead, i'd be paying below shelf price for very solid beers i already know a lot about from a brewery/two breweries whose collected works speak for themselves. why on earth would you complain about this? especially given the structure of the beers that are being released, this is just another way to get your Enlightment/Idle Hands fix, and couldn't be any less exclusionary.

 

I made two separate points,
purposely displaced by the quote, that you fused together. I did not say If I pay up front I want exclusivity or rarity, if I pay up front I just want value, I want more than those who aren't paying up front and that extra value/specialness is the extra consideration on the sellers end.

I don't think my point and others' has been addressed, what are people getting in return for ponying up money early? Please don't say a 15% discount because that weak point has already been addressed and dismissed.

 

Sorry - the second part of my post was not meant to be in reply to the rest of your post. I was just replying to that one point in the first paragraph.

Why is that a "weak point"? It's something you're getting. If you're interested in getting a couple of bottles of each Enlightenment and Idle Hands release fresh and don't want to buy another case of beer each time, you aren't going to be able to get that discount somewhere else. Is it a big benefit? Not particularly, but it's a real, existing benefit. You're also getting an invite to a party where I'm sure there will be complimentary pours of beer + food. The Night Shift party was pretty fantastic this past year and I'm sure this one will also be fun. Again, is this a huge benefit? No, but it is, again, a quantifiable thing you are getting.

However, I think the most important thing you're "getting" is being able to support a local brewery you like a lot. As Chris alluded to, this is kind of similar to how a CSA works - you could simply go to the farmers market each week and buy the vegetables you'd get in your CSA share, and you probably wouldn't pay a lot more - but you're essentially becoming an investor in the brewery (on a very small scale) by participating in something like this. A lot of people enjoy this, and like supporting people like Chris and Ben. If you don't - don't join!

 

You answered my question. Thanks