Another Saison Thread

I have only used 565 1x, so all I have to say is based on anecdotes and heresay. By egregious misfortune, the fermentation temperature got very high, possibly over 100F. But guess what? The beer was surprisingly drinkable.

While I don't think anyone would recommend going this high, I wouldn't worry about getting higher than 76F, especially because your last gravity reading was 1.010; there's not that much left for the yeast to do so I don't think they would be kicking out much in the way of phenolics.

And as a counterpoint, you could keep it where it is and just be patient. These saison strains are notorious for taking a while to finish. But patience isn't easy. I'm currently impatiently awaiting for the arrival of a shipment containing the 3724 saision strain. I can only magine how impatient I'll be during the second week of fermentation, when the gravity is stil 1.024!

 

You are indeed correct that White Labs lists a different recommended fermentation temperature for WLP565 than Wyeast lists for 3724. I have no explanation for the differing recommendations in this regard.

If you trust Mr. Malty then WLP565 = 3724:

WLP565
Belgian Saison
Brasserie Dupont (Saison Dupont)
3724 Belgian Saison Yeast

Cheers!

 

I used WLP565 to ferment a 1.070 saison at about 78-80*F and it was fucking terrible. REALLY hot, phenolly gasoline. That's what I made. Not entirely blaming the yeast here, but I think the high temp was the main culprit.

 

My experience has been that the WL yeasts are in general a lot less robust than their WY equivalents, on both the hot and cold sides. It probably has something to do with the way they are propagated rather than a difference in the original strain. So unless I just can't get it from WY or a bottle of commercial beer, I usually pass on WL.

I'll add that what you get from stepping up a store bought bottle is generally at least as good as what the yeast suppliers offer, often for less money. And you get to drink a good beer too! To those who say "yes, but you have to make a starter," you need to do this with WY and WL as well if you want the best results.

For saisons, try stepping up a bottle of Dupont Avril or Blaugies Saison d'epeautre. It works well and quickly at 70-75F.

 

I take it that means no pomegranate?

 

Hmmm. Sounds like your fermentation is stuck at 1.003. Stupid yeast. Seriously though, that is super fast.

 

Sorry if I'm reading this wrong. But people don't normally ramp up temps because the yeast doesn't attenuate, they do it for flavor characteristics.


Oh, thanks for the update. It's good to get feedback.

 

Tips for taming 565:

- Reasonable OG (1.070 or less)
- Open fermentation (this yeast doesn't like back pressure)
- Low mash temp (148-150)
- Pitch a nice healthy starter
* kicker - add a little simple sugar in place of some base malt, but not 100% necessary if the other items are followed

With all these things done correctly, you dont need a fermentation temp above 75 at ANY point and you'll tame the beast.

 

Hmm, I based what I said my experience with this yeast. I've used it without pushing it over 80* and haven't had a problem with it not finishing. I read some of the reviews on the WL site and it's clear that people do seem to want to push this yeast so it finishes out. So I imagine at that was what GreenKrusty101 was referring too so my apologies to him.

 

Thanks.

Let me start over. When people do a Saison, is it best to start at the end and work backwards? Ask your self how dry and how peppery I want this beer to be. Then pick the yeast, mash temp, amount of simple sugars used, etc?

Okay, rhetorical questions but maybe that explains the disjointed point that I was trying to make.

 

I looked at your original post and I see that you in fact said, "reluctant to ramp the 565 too far for fear of undesired phenolics". Which is the point that I was trying to make.

One second. Jeff Foxworthy is calling me. He wants to tell me something.

 

Here are my notes... As far as I can tell.. 565 and 3724 are two halves of the beast that makes everyone's favorite Saison.

On how to treat the beast:

• lots of yeast - big starters
• start cold - 64-65F
• Let it ramp naturally. Don't force heat the batch
• Try and keep it below 85F. (I've let it free run up to 95, but that wasn't as pleasant)

Doing those things, I've used 565 to push Saisons as big as 1.120 down to 1.014 or so and others lower.

 

“As far as I can tell.. 565 and 3724 are two halves of the beast that makes everyone's favorite Saison.” Interesting statement. What leads you to believe that 565 and 3724 are two ‘different’ strains of the Dupont yeast strain(s)?

Cheers!

 

Legend has it that the saison strain used by Dupont may actually be multiple strains. So if Wyeast and White Labs each isolated 'the strain' independently, they may actually have picked up different strains.