Another Saison Thread

I am aware of the ‘legend’. I was curious what information drewbage has such that he postulated that 565 is one of the strains while 3724 is the other strain vs. 565 and 3724 being the same strain.

Cheers!

 

Didn't want to start "Another Saison Thread" -- consider this one subtitled "Sparks Flew..."

...when I plugged in the temp controller on my heater. Bright blue electrical sparks jumping out of the Ranco ETC plastic housing. It smoked a good bit too. My wiring job came loose, black wire met white wire, the inside of my Ranco is toast. I wish this were just a hypothetical scenario to motivate a question about fermentation temperature.

My saison will need to ferment at ambient temps; here are my options:
Cellar – currently 68F, probably stable to within a couple degrees.
2nd Floor closet – currently 79F, but will probably get warmer and cooler with changes in the weather.

I'm leaning towards keeping it in the cellar for a while, possibly moving it in a few days.
OG was 1.050. I pitched a 1.25 L starter of WY 3724 last night. What fermentation scenario would you choose under the circumstances?

 

Peter,

I personally would not feel comfortable fermenting 3724 at 68°F. That is too cool in my opinion (the low range of Wyeast’s recommended temperatures is 70°F).

I think that starting at 68°F is OK. I would move the fermenter to your 2nd floor closet after a couple of days at 68°F.

I fermented with 3724 last summer (August 2011) whereby I started at 71°F but I got it to the mid 70’s a couple of days later. The bulk of the fermentation occurred in the lower to mid 80’s. That Saison turned out great. I placed the fermenter in a non-air conditioned bedroom.

Cheers!

Jack

 

The temps I gave were for ambient air. The fermometer tape on the side of my bucket fermenter says 70F, so the fermentation itself is probably warmer. This was my rationale for leaving it in the cellar, at least for the time being.

 

“The fermometer tape on the side of my bucket fermenter says 70F, so the fermentation itself is probably warmer. This was my rationale for leaving it in the cellar, at least for the time being.” I think you are indeed OK for now. I just personally would not feel comfortable keeping it at that temperature for the duration of the ferment. I would recommend that you move it to your 2nd floor closet for the ‘bulk’ of your fermentation (several weeks).

It is good news that several folks have posted about their ‘good luck’ with brewing with 3724. In past threads (on BA and other forums) I have read too many folks discuss how 3724 got stuck on them. In my humble opinion, the warmer the better with respect to fermenting with 3724.

Cheers!

 

Maybe drewbage will chime in again. My experience with 565 is limited to a single batch, and in fact it was pitched as a mix with 3724. I can say that that particular batch came out more 'peppery' than straight 3724 batches, which for me always favor the fruity side. Could be coincidence, but it's one data point.

 

I have only homebrewed with 3724 once and the resulting flavors were a nice mix of spicy (including pepper) and fruity flavors. I personally would not describe it as having more fruity flavors than spicy (including pepper) flavors; more like a genuine 50/50 split to my palate.

Cheers!

 

Since most of you points are obvious to any experienced brewer you should elaborate.
Reasonable OG is Obvious
Open Fermerntation? Well most HB setups are virtually open it doesn't matter. More specifically it is a finicky yeast that treated right won't matter.
For a saison you can go as low as 144 and trying to finish dry I would say 146 is the highest.
Pitch a nice health starter? Yes you should do that for every beer, primary in most cases should take 4-5 days.
Yes simple sugar is a good thing in certain beers and in some saisons. Just add table sugar at end of boil or or a simple syrup to mid to late primary.

 

He wasn't talking about most beers. He was talking about saisons brewed with WLP565. Are you implying that you get full attenuation with WLP565 in 4-5 days?

 

I agree that it's best to mash low for high attenuation, but I think this is a bit of an overstatement and all factors need to be taken into consideration. The last beer I did with 3724 was mashed at 150 and went from 1.060 to 1.000, how much dryer would you want it to go?

 

I'm curious about the open fermentation part. How would you go about doing that? No airlock in carboy?

 

A true open fermentation would be with no cover of any sort (except for the room's ceiling) over the wort. It's not generally recommended for beginners due to the risk of infection. And it's not necessary. The idea that any homebrew batch would somehow produce pressures harmful to the yeast is dubious IMO.

 

Yeah I would be reluctant to attempt such a thing. How would a homebrewer be able to accomplish open fermentation at home without infection? I'd imagine there's all sorts of critters in the air.

 

Well, it can be (and has been) done by home brewers. And there are a few commercial brewers who do it, like Samuel Smith's, and they are not in any sort of high tech 'clean room' environment. I think they basically rely on pitching enough yeast to muscle out any competition early on.

 

Not a lot of reason for me to explain anything, as it seems you all pretty much know everything already. Good luck with your Saisons, boys.

 

Aw-shucks.

Thanks!

 

Below is a link to an interesting article on open fermentation.

Permit me to tell a story. I read in a past post from somebody on BA that WY3724/WLP565 is ‘sensitive’ to back pressure. As a result, last year when I fermented my first Saison using 3724 I took a step to relieve back pressure. I primary ferment in a plastic bucket and normally I use a 3 piece airlock. For my Saison I didn’t insert my airlock but instead I just placed a square piece of aluminum foil weighed down at the 4 corners with stainless steel nuts. I was paranoid about fermenting with 3724; I did a daily check to ensure that the fermentation wasn’t stuck. After a number of days (I don’t recall how many) I checked on my fermenter and to my horror I noticed a fruit fly dead underneath the aluminum foil. I usually don’t have issues with fruit flies but for some reason last summer was an aberration and there were lots of fruit flies about. Anyhow I promptly sanitized my airlock and put it in place. I was very concerned that this batch would be infected by bacteria on a fruit fly (if a fruit fly did get into the fermenter). I was pleased to see several weeks later that this batch was not infected. I will no longer take a chance on not using an airlock since I am concerned about bugs getting in.

An extract from the article: “ …there is an increased chance for infection if one has numerous fruit flies or other animals around the fermenter …”

Cheers!

http://hbd.org/brewery/library/OpenFerm.html

 

Wait a minute... so its a bad idea to setup a second lautering step post open-fermentation using fruit fly carcasses as your filtration bed?! Sh*t.

 

If you ever tried my Saison(s), you'd pour yours out.