Appellation Beer

Yes, so I found out.

You also left out a significant part of his post:

"To be fair, during my trip I also had several of SN's new IPAs, a Deschutes IPA, and the Heller Bock from Ploughshare (Lincoln, NE) all of which I thought were awesome. The good big guys (SN is a prime example) are combining the best aspects of precision brewing with American innovation and are delivering some really exciting beers."

Which is actually quite critical in talking about American brewing as a whole. Painting all of US Brewing with the same brush is just as misleading as painting all of German brewing with a different brush.

 

Notice also you left out a significant part of the post by @herrburgess who was using dumbed-down to refer to mass market beers and craft brewers needing them as a foil to market their own "dumbed-up" beers.

 

But you still haven't explained how your quote of that portion of the @MattRiggs post is relevant to the claim that craft brewers need dumbed down mass market beers.



Also, you don't consider this:

"It was interference to the "dumbing down" of American Craft Beer." to be commenting on American Craft Beer and referring to American Craft Beer to be generalization to American Craft Beer?

Now you really have me confused. All American Craft Beer is not the same. Just as all German Beer is not the same.

 

You are talking about "dumbed down craft beers," which I've already agreed to, yes there are some poorly brewed craft beers out there. But you replied to a comment focused on "dumbed down mass market beers" and still have not drawn any connection at all between the fact that a pro found 3 craft breweries in Chicagoland with poor beers that the crowds loved and the fact that craft breweries need dumbed down mass market beers.

Also, FYI, statistics and metrics have nothing much to do with the difference between American Craft Beers and *some* American Craft Beers. One term encompasses *all* and the other refers to a subset.

 

No I don't think we are in agreement. You keep talking about and damning American Craft Beers as if they were all the same and I keep trying to point out that while your comment could be said to apply to *some* American Craft Beers, it in no way applies to *all* American Craft Beers. So yes its probably time to end.

 

Dumbed up, or dumbed down...the result is the same.

 

First off, there are obviously exceptions to every rule. But, when discussing the progress of brewing trends in two of the world's leading beer nations, it is sometimes necessary to take the liberty of making some generalizations.

With that being said, I was generally disappointed in what I tasted on my trip back home. Especially in Chicago. I only made it to three popular taprooms, so my sample size is admittedly a bit too small to make scientific claims. But, my gut is telling me that there's a trend....

I understand, however, that new US breweries are under pressure to get beer out the door and they are selling what the consumer is calling for. Their consumer based pressures are similar to what lead breweries around the world to produce lower cost, lower OG, lower IBU lagers during the second half of the 20th century.

The difference between my opinions and those from someone like Greg from Stone (see that comment thread in the German forum) is that I am equally frustrated with both groups. Why didn't Coors innovate in the 1980s and why are they still not doing that under their flagship name? Why did every beer from the Chicago tap rooms look and taste like one-dimensional hop juice?

There are many reasons to be excited about what is happening in both the US and Germany. Bad breweries are making equally bad, albeit different beers in both countries. Good breweries in both countries are continuing to make good beer. The greatest breweries are getting better by taking inspiration from each other and are often able to make a new product that is greater than the sum of its parts.

Sierra Nevada's Black IPA: awesome American hop aroma/flavor, great body and mouthfeel, clean finish
Stone's Levitation: The first lower ABV beer I had that combined American Hops with a fitting malt profile (blew my mind)
New Glarus' Moon Man: It's like an American Pale Ale made a really talented baby with a German Pils
Weihenstephan vs. Brew Dog's India Pale Weizen: The first American hopped Weizen that I ever liked (and I liked it a lot)

It's a great time to be a drinker/brewer, and I think it's only going to get better in the future. I'm just tired of people bashing the big guys while giving the little guys a free pass (in Germany and America).

I have a ton of respect for Stone and Greg. I realize that in 90's it was a different world and that type of "us vs. them" marketing was exactly what was needed to gain traction. The cool thing is, Stone doesn't need to use it anymore. Their beer speaks for itself.