Are Plastic Carboys A Problem??

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Twisted_Halo, Mar 24, 2014.

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  1. Twisted_Halo

    Twisted_Halo Initiate (0) Jan 19, 2014 Pennsylvania

    When I purchased my equipment kit from Midwest Supplies I chose to go with the 5 gallon plastic carboy option. Since then I have read "How to Brew" by John Palmer. The immortal Mr. Palmer suggests, multiple times, in his book that plastic carboys are not good for secondary fermentation "because they are too oxygen permeable, causing staling." How much of a worry do you see this being? Obviously, a shorter amount of time in the carboy would allow for less chance of oxygenation. How long do you guys think it would take for a noticeable reaction to happen? I don't want stale or off tasting beer because of too much exposure to oxygen. Thanks for any answers!

    The carboy in question http://www.midwestsupplies.com/the-bubbler-5-gallon-plastic-carboy.html
     
  2. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    It think you should be more concerned in your choice of air-lock/stopper material than the plastic carboy. People use plastic carboys (Better Bottles), for long term aging, all the time with no ill effects. I would advise against using traditional air locks or silicone bungs however...see study here:

    http://www.mocon.com/pdf/optech/Closures - Oxygen Passage Study.pdf
     
  3. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    buckets have been used since modern homebrewers have been brewing.
    buckets are fine for brewing. there is some belief that because they can scratch and permit bugs to hide there is a contamination risk, but this is not a real problem among homebrewers. buckets can be sanitized effectively.

    for a secondary, extended aging, then you do want to use glass. the reason has more to do with the surface area of exposed beer. there is a lot of surface in a bucket, no matter what. but you can fill a glass carboy right up to the top of the shoulders and reduce the surface area to only an inch or two.

    as for the oxygen permeability of plastic, yes plastic is undoubtedly more permeable than glass. glass is impermeable. plastic is not. however, we don't hear about too many people complaining that their plastic bucket leached oxygen. I don't think it is a risk, but im not John Palmer, so take it for what its worth.
    Cheers.
     
  4. OddNotion

    OddNotion Pooh-Bah (1,915) Nov 1, 2009 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah

    Staling from oxygen permeation in better bottles from my experience is no more than a myth. I have kept multiple beers in better bottles for 6-15 months with zero signs of oxidation. Just be smart about how you handle the beers and how often you taste/test them and you will be fine.
     
  5. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    Palmer's comments address the type of plastic used in ale buckets.

    The Bubbler® plastic is not the same plastic used in ale buckets.
    The plastic used in ale buckets permeates more O2 than the Bubbler® plastic.
     
  6. Homebrew42

    Homebrew42 Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2006 New York

    Buckets and the old type of plastic carboy (i.e. water cooler jugs) are made of HDPE, which is fine for short term storage, but it's too oxygen permeable for long term storage. Modern plastic carboys like the "Better Bottle" and the "Bubbler" are made of PET, which is less oxygen permeable and is suitable for long term storage.
     
    ericj551 likes this.
  7. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    You should consider skipping a secondary. Many of us (most?) only find value in them for certain beers like lagers and sours that require longterm aging, or perhaps fruit beets that have additional periods of actual fermentation. If you are going to do an extended secondary, you should avoid plastic.
     
  8. WelshBrewer

    WelshBrewer Initiate (0) Mar 17, 2013 Oregon

    Man some people worry about the little stuff too much. Relax have a home brew.
     
  9. Ilanko

    Ilanko Initiate (0) Aug 3, 2012 New York

    Carboys, cowboys and airlocks, I don't trust them. I have 4 buckets and one carboy for seconderey .
    Alleyways use gravity reading rather then airlock. Brewing Software will get you
     
  10. TheBeerDrinker

    TheBeerDrinker Initiate (0) Jan 29, 2014 Minnesota

    Don't plastic carboys get scratched and thus are harder to clean and sterilize?
     
  11. Soneast

    Soneast Pooh-Bah (1,751) May 9, 2008 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Only if you scour them with a carboy brush or something. A little PBW soak and rinse, and there should be no potential for scratches. Not to mention nothing on a homebrew scale is ever sterilized, unless you autoclave your equipment or something. Sanitized is all that is really needed.
     
  12. atomeyes

    atomeyes Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2011 Canada (ON)

    my issues with plastic:

    1. you have to be sure that it is food-grade plastic
    2. i would not do MOST long-aged beer in them, including sours with fruit additions for multiple months and where pediococcus is part of the bug mix. i'd be worried about too much tartness. the oxygen permeability is much greater than glass. not sure if it is practically significant or just statistically significant, but why risk it
    3. i'd use a bucket for fruit additions for 1-2 months. no data behind it, just brain perception
    4. i'd use it for any type of sacch brew
    5. i am currently using it for a lambic. kind of seems to contradict what i posted above about bug mixes, but if you think of how lambics are made (in wood barrels in non-climatized settings), then plastic is actually likely a better bet for genuine results vs glass
    6. plastic buckets tend to retain beer smells. I've soaked mine in oxyclean after. some still smell like cider or the sour that i had in them. and that scares me a bit.
     
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