astringent saison

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Abawol01, Mar 20, 2014.

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  1. Abawol01

    Abawol01 Initiate (0) Dec 17, 2013 Michigan

    So I just tasted my first saison. Extract brew with an OG 1.056 and FG 1.006. I fermented at 63° to start but ramped it up to 85° both in primary and secondary. After three weeks I racked it onto 3 lbs. of tart cherries from Oregon fruit for another week. I know that's low for a five gallon batch but I didn't want a huge cherry presence.

    My problem, served cold it had this huge astringent character. It disappeared as it warmed and was fine at 60° and up. I have a gut feeling its from the cherries but I can't be certain as it was my first saison.

    My question, with this fade over time? The beer is extremely young and will get better with age but I don't know if the astringent character will fade at all. Thoughts?

    Thanks or the help guys. Other than the astringency it tastes and smells great!
     
    #1 Abawol01, Mar 20, 2014
  2. Homebrew42

    Homebrew42 Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2006 New York

    Can you describe what you mean by astringent?
     
    #2 Homebrew42, Mar 20, 2014
  3. Abawol01

    Abawol01 Initiate (0) Dec 17, 2013 Michigan

    It's weird. Really dry like it's supposed to be but it had a rubbing alcohol like aftertaste. Maybe astringent wasn't the right word.

    Kinda like over steeped tea. Though I watched my specialty grain steeping temps like a hawk and I was at 155° the entire 20 minutes.
     
    #3 Abawol01, Mar 20, 2014
  4. Homebrew42

    Homebrew42 Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2006 New York

    So is it like rubbing alcohol or oversteeped tea? Is it a flavor or a mouthfeel that you're describing? Astrigency isn't a taste or a flavor, it's a mouthfeel, specifically it's the gritty/sandy feeling you get from tannic red wine or oversteeped tea.
     
    #4 Homebrew42, Mar 20, 2014
  5. Abawol01

    Abawol01 Initiate (0) Dec 17, 2013 Michigan

    I clearly suck at describing this....sorry.

    It is definitely tannic like over steeped tea.
     
    #5 Abawol01, Mar 20, 2014
  6. Abawol01

    Abawol01 Initiate (0) Dec 17, 2013 Michigan

    I feel I should mention I used wyeast 3711 and steeped a half pound of briess caramel 20L at 155° for 20 minutes in a half gallon of water and sparged the grains with another 32oz of 155° water.
     
    #6 Abawol01, Mar 20, 2014
  7. FarmerTed

    FarmerTed Pundit (928) May 31, 2011 Colorado

    Cold conditioning can help, but it may take a while. I've had grainy-astringency in a saison that went away after a couple months of cold storage.
     
    #7 FarmerTed, Mar 20, 2014
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  8. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    To springboard off what @FarmerTed posted, it is possible for tannins to settle out with age. A wine analogy would be that Red Wines with a substantial tannin presence are often aged to permit the tannins to settle out.

    As was discussed, cold conditioning may encourage the tannins (polyphenols) to settle out quicker since the cold temperature will encourage proteins and tannins to ‘coagulate’ into bigger particles; bigger particles settle out more quickly.

    Below is from Kai Troester’s blog discussion of lagering (cold conditioning):

    “Proteins and polyphenols (tannins) form agglomerations (basically bind with each other to form larger molecules) which become insoluble and precipitate out of solution. [Nguyen 2007]”

    Cheers!
     
    #8 JackHorzempa, Mar 20, 2014
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  9. Abawol01

    Abawol01 Initiate (0) Dec 17, 2013 Michigan

    Awesome. Into the 38 degree cellar room they go.

    Thanks guys!
     
    #9 Abawol01, Mar 20, 2014
  10. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    35F or lower would be even better, if you want proteins and tannins to link up and precipitate.
     
    #10 VikeMan, Mar 20, 2014
  11. Abawol01

    Abawol01 Initiate (0) Dec 17, 2013 Michigan

    I need a second fridge.......
     
    #11 Abawol01, Mar 20, 2014
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