Averagely Perfect ESB - Poll #15 - Total Crystal Malt Percentage

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by VikeMan, Mar 28, 2017.

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Select the overall % of Crystal Malt in the Grain/Fermentables Bill

Poll closed Mar 30, 2017.

  1. 1%

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  2. 2%

    2 vote(s)
    5.9%

  3. 3%

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  4. 4%

    2 vote(s)
    5.9%

  5. 5%

    2 vote(s)
    5.9%

  6. 6%

    13 vote(s)
    38.2%

  7. 7%

    1 vote(s)
    2.9%

  8. 8%

    14 vote(s)
    41.2%

  9. 9%

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  10. 10%

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
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  1. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    -> Poll #14 <- determined that the Invert Sugar #2 will be 4% of the grain bill.

    This poll will determine the overall percentage of the two crystal malts (English Crystal Malt (~55L) and English Dark Crystal (~80L)) together. If you want more than 10%, write it in. After determining the total, we'll determine the split between the two. That will leave the rest of the bill for Maris Otter.

    If you are not a believer in specifying fermentables by percentages (due to non-proportional flavor/color extraction for different grains at various mash efficiencies, or due to the fact that the Invert Sugar will not be subject to a mash efficiency), the assumed mash efficiency for the grains in the final recipe will be 70%, if that helps.

    When this poll is done, I will look at the data a few different ways to determine the central tendency. It may or may not be as simple as a plurality would indicate. There may or may not be a runoff. It all depends on the data.

    I recommend you think about this in terms of not only your personal preferences, but also in the context of the ABV and Final Gravity (and thus the attenuation) already selected, the fermentables already selected, and the yeast strain already selected.

    This poll will be open for 48 hours.

    If you have issues with or suggestions for methodologies used in this project, please send them via beermail. Let's keep the threads themselves on topic to the question at hand and not about how you would have asked the question differently.

    The Averagely Perfect ESB Recipe so far...

    Target ABV: 5.4%
    OG: 1.053
    FG: 1.012 (77.4% Apparent Attenuation)

    Grain Bill (proportions TBD):
    ---Maris Otter
    ---English Crystal Malt (~55L)
    ---English Dark Crystal (~80L)
    ---Invert Sugar #2 (4%)

    Yeast Strain: Wyeast 1469
     
    #1 VikeMan, Mar 28, 2017
  2. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    In the previous poll I suggested 4% Invert #2, 4% C55 and 2% C80. That implies that I should be voting for 6% here.

    Let's make this interesting. I'd like someone to try to convince me to change my vote. Or try to convince everyone else that I am right :slight_smile:
     
    #2 wspscott, Mar 29, 2017
    InVinoVeritas likes this.
  3. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    The only reason I can think of to add more crystal is the challenge of the FG. But I do not want more crystal.
     
    #3 pweis909, Mar 29, 2017
    wspscott likes this.
  4. crcostel

    crcostel Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2006 Illinois

    Let me give you another one: 96% MO/4% invert yields an SRM below 6 which is way under style.

    This beer needs crystal. You need a good amount of caramel to balance out the hops. They call it a bitter but the hops are not supposed to dominate.

    I voted 9% to balance out the Crystal Police. I could easily do 8%.

    Fear not - even at those amounts the beer will not be malty, dark or sweet.
     
    #4 crcostel, Mar 29, 2017
  5. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    @crcostel I think @pweis909 meant "more crystal" than 6%, in the context of his reply to @wspscott.
     
    #5 VikeMan, Mar 29, 2017
    wspscott and crcostel like this.
  6. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Given that the yeast is 1469 that is a genuine challenge. If you go 'light' on the crystal malt than achieving the FG goal is likely not to happen.

    Brewing with invert sugar does not aid matters in this regard.

    Cheers!
     
    #6 JackHorzempa, Mar 29, 2017
  7. Granitebeard

    Granitebeard Zealot (549) Aug 24, 2016 Maine

    I went with 5%.
     
    #7 Granitebeard, Mar 29, 2017
  8. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    I agree that the FG will be challenging with this yeast and the sugar. Part of me is interested in rising to the challenge but part of me doesn't care. If this beer finishes five points low, I bet I still enjoy it.
     
    #8 pweis909, Mar 29, 2017
    redgorillabreath, wspscott and dmtaylor like this.
  9. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    Personally, I don't care about "style" so I don't really care what the SRM ends up at. It clearly won't look like a Pilsner.

    I also don't think we necessarily need to balance the hops if we go with something like EKG at reasonable amounts. I'm not worried about sweet, but darker caramel malts do affect flavor in ways besides "sweetness".

    Honestly, I was hoping someone would try to convince me that 10% was a good amount, but it appears that no one thinks that is a good idea :slight_smile:
     
    #9 wspscott, Mar 29, 2017
  10. crcostel

    crcostel Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2006 Illinois

    If its a reasonable amount of EKG we would be in good shape. But next week we might decide on a lot of Target (AA 12.6 at my store).

    If we do end up at 8%, I would have no problem with 6% C55, 2% C80. That is the same amount of C80 you had said for 6% with a bit more C55.
     
    #10 crcostel, Mar 29, 2017
  11. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Or a lot of Cluster hops?

    Cheers!
     
    #11 JackHorzempa, Mar 29, 2017
    pweis909 and crcostel like this.
  12. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    In the past we have been "reasonable" and ended up with good recipes. I hope that we will all agree that 85 IBUs is too much and if we decide Target is the hop, then it will be a small amount. If it is EKG, then it will be more. I'm still hoping for Citra, lots of Citra :slight_smile:

    I would have no problem with 8% for this poll and I think your percentages are pretty reasonable.
     
    #12 wspscott, Mar 29, 2017
  13. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    The 2% votes looked like they were hanging out a little too far compared with the rest of the distribution, so I applied an outlier test, and they are.

    After removing them...
    Median: 6%
    Mean: 7%
    Mode: 8%

    I'm calling this one for the mean, 7%.
     
    #13 VikeMan, Mar 30, 2017
    crcostel likes this.
  14. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    #14 wspscott, Mar 31, 2017
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