Averagely Perfect ESB - Poll #9 - Sugars

FWIW - The link posted a few polls ago had straight golden syrup as essentially interchangeable with invert #1

http://www.unholymess.com/blog/beer-brewing-info/making-brewers-invert

 

In the beer I'm building in my mind, invert 3 gets me to the color I'm looking for, about 11 SRM. YMMV.

 

I'm going to fiddle around with the recipe with Brewcipher before casting a vote. It's getting to the finer points now.

 

The color of the invert sort of depends on how much crystal vs sugar you want and your final color. Right now the recipe I have playing around has

5% C55,
4% C80
3.3% Invert 2

I get SRM of a little over 11 and it matches our OG/FG. If you want less crystal or a higher SRM, you'd need darker invert. (I am presuming we won't be putting Munich in).

 

Would love to hear @patto1ro's thoughts on this one.

 

I was looking at 4.4% C55 and invert 3, and 2.2% C80 to get to 11SRM in beersmith

He weighed in earlier that Fuller's ESB is all malt, as currently formulated and that in the past, they used corn and colored sugar syrups as well. If we want to make a Fullers clone, we should not vote for sugar at this point, or else try to get sugar now and pick up corn in the buyer's remorse poll at the end, depending on the era we want to emulate. IMO the APESB does not need to be a Fuller's clone, but it certainly influences the way we think about ESB -- that's why it is eponymous with the strong English pale ale style.

 

Someone else mentioned other ESBs still have sugar, can't remember who maybe @patto1ro maybe @Hanglow

Personally, I think a little invert #2 or #3 would add a little extra to go along with the C55 and C80

 

The Gales HSB recipe has invert and only 3% light crystal and 1%BP , or it did when it was brewed at horndean in the 1990s. It also only had bittering hops and got its fruity aroma/flavour from a warm fermentation, 23.5C.

1970s abbot ale supposedly had about 6% light invert, that recipe has changed though. It was a very well thought of beer back in the day apparently

 

I have no doubt that there are others. My thinking was there was a (I think) a time when ESB was exclusively a Fuller's branding, and there may be some who would think that an APESB would therefore be a Fuller's clone. Sort of like cloning a steam beer that didn't try to emulate Anchor might not seem right to some. I personally like playing with sugar syrups. Maybe I'll do a split batch of some sort to test one sugar against the other or an all malt beer vs, one with sugar syrup. I guess if I plan to do a split batch, I can brew whatever we vote on plus a batch with any other tweaks I desire, although I'd likely keep it to a single variable like can I taste the difference using the two different approaches to making sugar in unholymess, or something boring like yeast (how does that Danstar ESB play) or dry hop options..

 

Yup: “…Fuller’s zealously guards the name ESB as a trademark in the UK…”

The only beer that is labeled as ESB in the UK is Fuller’s ESB.

Cheers!

https://beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/9ySC3u0FZZ/extra-special-bitter-esb/

 

Would it be unheard of to not include any type of sugar at all?

 

I don't think we should try to clone Fullers. It certainly is a well known ESB but that doesn't make it perfect.

I don't believe the winner of this poll is in - it just advances to the sugar vs munich vs nothing final poll.

 

I've enjoyed homebrews both ways. I've been pushing sugar because I find it interesting but I gather that some find it would be a burden, or simply would prefer not to have it.

 

What's the difference between invert sugar and Belgian candi sugar/ syrup that is sold at any LHBS?

 

That'd be a nice little experiment. Lots of sugar experiments in the early days of the Mad Fermentationist / @OldSock blog, but I'm not sure this particular question was addressed.

 

FWIW, Belgian candi syrup/sugar is traditionally beet sugar, where english invert is cane sugar. Whether you can taste a difference is another question.

 

Candi sugar is made with high high pH and a source of nitrogen. Most of the character is actually Maillard reaction byproducts. Good info here.

Invert sugar is made at a low pH with no nitrogen. It is a true caramel. Ron Pattinson's The Home Brewer's Guide to Vintage Beer has recipes for the various sorts. The dark ones require hours of cooking.

I use dark candi syrup in my Courage RIS inspired recipe. Not authentic, but delicious!

 

Removed my vote for Golden. I intend to use it to make my Invert if we add it and we need the color.

 

No. 2 invert would be my choice. Maybe with a dash of No. 3 for colour,