Averagely Perfect Kölsch - Poll #8 - Yeast Strain

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by VikeMan, May 1, 2020.

?

Select a Yeast Strain

Poll closed May 3, 2020.
  1. Wyeast 2565 Kölsch

    44.0%
  2. WLP029 German/Kölsch Ale

    16.0%
  3. Omega OYL-044 Kolsch II

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Lalbrew Köln Kölsch

    40.0%
  5. Wyeast 1010 American Wheat

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Wyeast 1007 German Ale

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. WLP036 Düsseldorf Alt Ale

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,957) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    -> Poll #7 <- determined that Wheat Malt is IN, joining German Pilsner in the grain bill.

    This poll will select a yeast strain, before we return to the grain bill to determine proportions. I have limited the candidates to strains that I believe are generally available year round, though not necessarily immune to backorder. You can write in another strain, but if you do, please make sure it's generally available to homebrewers first, and include that information in your post.

    Straight plurality wins this poll. If your first choice is losing badly, consider jumping to a similar choice that has more votes if you can't stand the choice that is leading. Pollster reserves the right to cast the a tie-breaking vote (or not) in this poll or any subsequent polls.

    I recommend you think about this in terms of not only your personal preferences, but also in the context of the ABV and Final Gravity (and thus the attenuation) already selected, fermentables already selected, and potential proportions for those fermentables that me be knocking at your brain. We have yet to determine proportions of fermentables or recommended mash temperatures/times, but it may be time to start thinking about wort fermentability as you're selecting a yeast strain. Or perhaps not, since there are still some reasonably powerful control knobs left.

    This poll will be open for 48 hours.

    If you have issues with or suggestions for methodologies used in this project, please send them via PM. Let's keep the threads themselves on topic to the question at hand and not about how you would have asked the question differently.

    Keep in mind that these polls must ask one question at a time, while normal recipe formulation often involves back and forth interplay between decisions and changes to decisions. To a small extent, we have that capability too, in the form of buyer remorse polls.

    The Averagely Perfect Kölsch Recipe so far...
    Target ABV: 4.8%
    OG: 1.045
    FG: 1.008

    Grain Bill:
    German Pilsner Malt (% TBD)
    Wheat Malt (% TBD)
    Yeast Strain: TBD, this poll
     
  2. MrOH

    MrOH Meyvn (1,369) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland

    WY029 only because the LHBS I prefer doesn't carry Wyeast
     
  3. Jasonja1474

    Jasonja1474 Initiate (180) Oct 15, 2018 Tennessee
    Trader

    This is where I screwed up when I order my yeast prematurely and I accidentally ordered WL830 German lager yeast
     
  4. Supergenious

    Supergenious Disciple (366) May 9, 2011 Michigan

    Anybody have experience with omega labs Kölsch?
     
  5. wasatchback

    wasatchback Disciple (383) Jan 12, 2014 Tajikistan
    Trader

    Omega Kolsch I is 2565
    Omega Kolsch II is wlp029
     
    MrOH likes this.
  6. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,883) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    pweis909 likes this.
  7. wasatchback

    wasatchback Disciple (383) Jan 12, 2014 Tajikistan
    Trader

    WLP029 is the easiest as it floccs the best

    2565 seems more accurate flavor-wise but needs to be fined or lagered for a really long time to clear. Kolsch should be crystal clear.

    1007 also doesn’t like to flocc. It doesn’t really produce diacetyl though which is nice.

    I find it so odd that WLP029 is lager and 2565 is ale.. genetically. You would think it would be the other way around based on their performance. 2565 is better at cold temps, Wlp029 doesn’t really like cold temps. 2565 is powdery like a lot of lager strains. WLp029 floccs almost like an English Ale yeast.

    I’m probably gonna blend the two. Never done it, been thinking about it for a while.

    I actually had really good luck fermenting a large pitch of VT Ale at 56. Might have been my favorite yeast profile of any Kolsch I’ve done. Finished in 4 days and dropped brilliantly clear. Yeast quantity was more along the line of a lager pitch than standard ale.
     
  8. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,883) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Has anybody used Lalbrew Köln Kölsch yeast? If so, what was your experience? How would you describe the flavor profile? How did the yeast perform?

    Cheers!
     
  9. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,905) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    WY 2565 and 1007 produce very different results, in my experience. I have used 1007 for altbiers, which have been clean and malty. WY2565 has produced a noticeable but subtle flavor, maybe the ester @JackHorzempa mentioned -- I am having a hard time naming it because I haven't used it for a few years. In my mind, this flavor belongs in Kolsch, but in my mind, the style is probably too narrowly defined. Still, if I want to learn what wheat is bringing to this style, 2565 is part of my frame of reference.

    I do not know if anyone can say anything about Imperial's Dieter, which is not among the choices, but maybe worthy of a write-in campaign? Their website says it is low ester. I've always wondered if it is comparable to 2565. I can say that I brewed an altbier with Kaiser and found it comparable to 1007.
     
    #9 pweis909, May 1, 2020
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
    utahbeerdude and scottakelly like this.
  10. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,905) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    Just reread this. Very different is overstating the case. Subtle difference is probably more accurate, as the esters produced by 2565 are subtle.
     
    dmtaylor likes this.
  11. wasatchback

    wasatchback Disciple (383) Jan 12, 2014 Tajikistan
    Trader

    Dieter is just WLP029 in Imperial packaging.
     
    pweis909 likes this.
  12. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,883) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    In recent communication with a BA homebrewer I stated the below:

    “Wyeast 2565 will produce an ester(s) that provides a subtle flavor like a Pacific Northwest Sauvignon Blanc for my palate which I personally find very desirable. So the trick is to ferment on the cool side for an ale but not too cool such that this subtle ester is not produced. I always ferment between 60 – 63 °F with this strain and I have always been pleased.”

    I have no way of knowing whether your palate has the same ‘response’ but…

    Cheers
     
    utahbeerdude likes this.
  13. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,905) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    I hesitated to same wine-like because I've heard it so often and wondered if I was guilty of confirmation bias or if I really felt that it was wine-like. It has been a few years so I don't really remember it too well. I too have fermented this in the low 60s.
     
  14. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,905) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    Has anyone voting for LalBrew Koln used it, and if so, what did you think. Another dry yeast sometimes considered for Kolsch is K-97. My experience with it, side by side with US-05 in a cream ale, was that it was neutral and took a while to clear.
     
    scottakelly likes this.
  15. OddNotion

    OddNotion Zealot (584) Nov 1, 2009 New Jersey

    Went with Omega but could switch to Lalbrew. Only chosen because these are the 2 options from the poll carried by the store that I am going to order ingredients from.
     
  16. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,957) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Crushed Cape Gooseberries, anyone?
     
  17. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Aspirant (222) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    Has any homebrewer actually ever eaten a crushed cape gooseberry?

    FWIW, I grow my own actual gooseberries, Hinnomaki Red are absolutely delicious. And... most currants of any color suck. But I like the big sweet Hinnomakis. :slight_smile:
     
    JackHorzempa likes this.
  18. wasatchback

    wasatchback Disciple (383) Jan 12, 2014 Tajikistan
    Trader

    K-97 is essentially the dried version of 1007. If you’ve never checked out the yeast Genome study and its “family tree”, it’s pretty interesting. I’d suggest it.

    http://beer.suregork.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Brewing_yeast_tree_Oct_2019.pdf

    I made one beer with the Lalbrew Koln strain. Supposedly the cell count is rather low so they recommend 2 packs for a 12 plato beer, which kinda sucks. Beer was fine. Prolly won’t use it again.
     
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  19. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,957) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Where is K-97 (or 1007) on that tree?

    ETA: nevermind. Found them near the top of the Beer 1 clade. Not the same strain, but (genetically) very close.
     
  20. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,905) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    Now that you mention it... I can't quite remember what they taste like either. I grew them one summer and made jam with them.
     
  21. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,905) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    @dmtaylor -- you can grow them in Wisconsin. I found them sold as "ground cherry." Member of the tomatillo family, and I recall there being a faint reminder of that in the taste. The association with cherry may be apt, for the jam I made. Or confirmation bias.
     
  22. Naugled

    Naugled Defender (640) Sep 25, 2007 New York

    I chose the lalbrew simply because I’ve never tried it and I’m curious.
     
  23. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,883) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    There has been some discussion that Wyeast 2565 is a powdery yeast strain. I have read that some homebrewers report success with using gelatin to encourage this yeast to settle. I am not a fan of adding 'extra stuff' to my beers so I have never tried gelatin. I personally find that three weeks of lagering 'works' for me in getting this yeast to settle out. YMMV.

    Cheers!
     
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  24. riptorn

    riptorn Disciple (389) Apr 26, 2018 North Carolina
    Society Trader

    I switched to Lalbrew Köln Kölsch because it doubled-up on the Ümlauts.
     
  25. eaglepar3

    eaglepar3 Initiate (86) Jun 5, 2009 Oregon

    I will probably use Imperial Dieter if I brew this. Voted for WLP029 though.
     
  26. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,957) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Wyeast 2565 Kölsch by a nose.