Averagely Perfect Saison - Poll #28 - IBU Target?

Great points.. I think we should also get a water profile together for this beer as well..

 

Who gave you permission to dryhop?

Have you ever dryhopped a saison? What hops? I have done some "hoppy saisons" but for some reason never thought about dryhops.

 

I have had great results using BrewCipher's built in targets. Solid push for "Vikeman's Blonde Ale" targets.

 

Funny. Out of the 6-8 saisons I've brewed, I've only not dry hopped one. Citra was my favorite, but the last few have been a big New Zealand dry hop delivery system.

 

I use Brewcipher as well.. can't recall any built in targets other than the blonde ale...

 

Indeed.. I normally brew my white wine saison and it's pretty awesome dryhopped with some nelson.

 

Amarillo dry-hopping w/ a saison is where it's at!

 

but for some reason never thought about dryhops.

Oh ye of a sheltered brew-life . . .
You could argue that dh'ing a saison is not to style, but the results are so good that naysayers will struggle. Dupont uses mild euro hops (Triskell/Challenger) and can not meet demand. I favor the bolder American hops which can really compliment (IMO).

I've only not dry hopped one. Citra was my favorite

That's the spirit, and ditto the Citra which gives it an early lead. Vikeman is pretty good about letting the group go in a chosen direction . . . for the dh poll the Hop-Head mafia will certainly be ready for the task.

 

I think the "selection" comes in after you pick the style on the recipe page. It does not have a drop down of all of the profiles, just the one appropriate for the style. So if I selected Doppelbock, "Generic Big Amber Lager" is in the drop down on the water tab. If I select Kolsch, "Generic Big Amber Lager" is replaced by something else. I'm not sure if limiting the choices per style to one is on purpose, but I certainly am not complaining.

 

OG & FG (and consequently apparent attenuation & ABV) are all important in determining bittering levels in a recipe. However, after you questioned whether ABV or FG was more important - and after reading epic1856's link - I concede that FG is probably more important than the % ABV in this regard. Thank you for helping me look at that differently.

In my mind (however now to a smaller degree), you still need to think about IBU's in terms of ABV. A balanced beer needs bitterness to balance the sweetness - whether it be real or perceived. The Mad Alchemist points out that a lower FG (greater apparent attenuation) results in more perceived bitterness. What helped me change my mind is that, whether real or perceived, when it comes to making great beer, I believe that perceived bitterness trumps real bitterness every time. In other words, who cares what the real bitterness is, if what I'm tasting seems "right" ?

Bringing this back to the recipe that we're developing, I still think we want to keep the bitterness lower than the 24 IBUs winning the pole right now. I voted for 20 prior to reading the Mad Alchemist link, mainly because I prefer lower bitterness in lower alcohol, more sessionable beers. And after crunching the numbers, our saison at 24 IBUs is headed to be more bitter than Saison Dupont is, which would be the high-end threshold for bittering rates for this beer, IMO.

I'm basing this on a few assumptions and a few facts. Saison Dupont is:
OG - 1.054
FG - 1.004
ABV - 6.5%
IBUs - 28 (Various reports from 25-30 but 28 comes up most often)
BU:GU --> 28:54 or .52
Apparent Attenuation - 92.5%

For comparison, our recipe so far is:
OG - 1.045
FG - 1.002
ABV - 5.7%
IBUs - 24 (if 24 wins)
BU:GU --> 24:45 or .53
Apparent Attenuation - 95.5% (thus more perceived bitterness)

Using the Mad Alchemist's Relative Bitterness Ratio calculator (RBR), whether you trust in this idea or not, Saison Dupont lands at .603 while our recipe lands at .630. The higher the number, the higher the perceived bitterness. All of this said, I don't know if the RBR is proven or even accurate, but that's where the numbers stand. Just some food for thought.

 

I have always dryhopped my saisons. I have used citra, chinook (yeah, chinook), nelson, saaz, and hallertauer. Nelson worked well with the same yeasts we are using here, had quite the "juicy" effect on the beer, like some glorious tropical punch. The chinook and citra hops were used on American farmhouse styles fermented with wlp677 American farmhouse. the one I did with saaz and hallertauer was awesome in a traditional Belgian sort of way.

 

Amarillo makes for an awesome Saison dry hop, I was actually planning on trying Simcoe in the Saison I kegged over the weekend, but a sample tasted so good I skipped the dry hop altogether. I do tend to prefer Brett or dry hopping, not both.

 

Brett and hops go very well together. "Brett brux trois" goes well with American hops, and so does brett c (I believe.).