BA Mexican Cake Release Thread

Discussion in 'South-Atlantic' started by c64person, Sep 30, 2015.

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  1. raverjames

    raverjames Initiate (0) Dec 11, 2003 Virginia

    Less than 2 cases left the brewery in the hands of employees. As I said, we didn't plan to release those beers, and they were never released to the public.
     
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  2. Jdub2839

    Jdub2839 Aspirant (227) Mar 15, 2014 Florida
    Trader

    Any talk of a Westbrook beer club for this type of stuff?
     
  3. mtrutlin

    mtrutlin Initiate (0) Apr 4, 2012 South Carolina

    Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what age the Pappy Barrels were that l were used for the Pappy Cake? Typically it's pretty well known which barrels have been used for other beers (Assassin, Eclispe, black Magick for instance) but I haven't seen Westbrook or anyone else mention which ones were used here.
     
  4. Robyn

    Robyn Disciple (348) Dec 20, 2006 South Carolina
    Trader

  5. dirtylou

    dirtylou Poo-Bah (3,687) May 12, 2005 New York
    Society Trader

    Why? The pricing on the Westbrook list seems way more ridiculous. Sure, there are some high numbers on that HoTD list, but they are beers brewed 10+ years ago more often than not. They certainly don't jack up the prices on newly released or 1-2 year old bottles.
     
  6. raczkowski

    raczkowski Initiate (0) May 16, 2011 Florida

    People complaining about pricing and i dont really know why...because you want a bottle but dont want to pony up the money to get it? here is how i look at the situation...if i am ever in charleston for the night, or actually go on a vacation there (long time want of mine), i intend to go to Westbrook for some beer. If i am with my brother, wife, or anyone else who would want to try one of the BA cakes, we split it and get a pour of it. People drop hundreds on bottles of wine all the time...hundreds on steaks or seafood all the time. Why is it that big a deal that a brewery is charging quite a bit for quite possibly their best bottle of beer? It lasts longer and gives other people a chance to try it. the bottle counts were extremely low, and the counts on the 2013 variants has to be getting low, so selling them to public would have been a disaster and more people would be pissed off than are about the price a brewery is charging. They do not owe us anything...if the price is too steep for you, drink some of their other beer and be happy. I swear....people waited 5 montsh for the release of BA cakes....people who bought a ticket within a 2 hour window (which is pretty long considering some other releases online) got 6 bottles with absolutely zero trouble (outside of maybe the weather which nobody can avoid)...I for one was stoked because i did not have to wait outside all night in the elements that would been present that Friday night. Be grateful they released it the way they did and enjoy the beer you have. if you are dying to try the pappy cake, take 3-4 guys with you, pay 50.00 each, and get a 5-6 oz pour. anyone who receives a bottle of pappy cake should share it with others anyways.
     
  7. abb610

    abb610 Initiate (0) Oct 14, 2010 North Carolina

    The problem that I have more about the changes we are seeing in the industry. Yes people will pay the prices, I just hate to see that this is the direction craft beer going. Even more so, one of my favorite breweries is leading the "charge". I mean we are talking about malts, water, yeast, hops, spices and an empty barrel of bourbon.
     
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  8. zac16125

    zac16125 Poo-Bah (2,193) Jan 26, 2010 South Carolina
    Society Trader

    I've been saying for a while now that I think there's a good chance that craft beer will eventually start to follow the Wine sales model, and I am not even sure thats a bad thing. It may drive down the craze and decrease the power of the secondary market.
     
  9. RDMII

    RDMII Initiate (0) Apr 11, 2010 Georgia

    You are my hero.
     
  10. greensparkplug

    greensparkplug Initiate (82) Nov 28, 2014 North Carolina
    Trader

    Probably has something to do with the fact that none of us has ever seen a brewery directly charge a customer $150 for one of their newly released beers.

    I haven't seen complaining about the price so much as just being a little repulsed by it.

    Just leaves a bad taste in the mouth. If it doesn't bother you, then great.
     
    abb610 likes this.
  11. raczkowski

    raczkowski Initiate (0) May 16, 2011 Florida

    i just do not see why it needs to be talked about so much. if they put their bottles at say 50-80/per bottle, people would be repulsed at them selling out within a week. We are the ones that have made this supply/demand issue so skewed in the demand side. if people were not psychotic about beer, maybe bottles would not be so expensive.
     
  12. CavemanRamblin

    CavemanRamblin Initiate (0) Jun 19, 2014 North Carolina
    Deactivated

    It's an adjunct stout guys. There will be another one next month and another the month after that.
     
  13. Beer4B

    Beer4B Initiate (0) Feb 28, 2014 Florida

    First off, let me just say that I have NO problem with WB charging huge premiums for sought after vintages. I think it's a cool option for those who want to pony up.

    However, I think the main reason people are complaining (or why it leaves a bad taste in their mouth) is for several reasons. Just addressing the '15 BA Cakes: they are charging more then 100% MORE then they charged for these bottles to go just days ago. A slight markup for on-site consumption is expected.
    As for your point about people paying much more money for wine or other things: wine and most every other items we buy take a gradual route in increasing prices...aside from the unusual example of something being released way below expectations. These prices doubled overnight...literally.
    Also, this is one of the first examples of a brewery trying to fetch close to black market prices...without proceeds going to charity that I am aware of. Again, not saying that is wrong, it is just surprising.

    I really don't care...I don't need to try these, but as a local I wouldn't be too thrilled if a bunch of out-of-towners just rolled through and payed $35ish for bottles days ago, and I'm asked to pay $85 at the bar.
     
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  14. PurdueBrewCrew

    PurdueBrewCrew Initiate (0) May 28, 2015 North Carolina

    If Shaun Hill put bottles of Ann/Art/Flora Cuvee for sale at Hill Farmstead for $100 on the on-premise only bottle list, would people have a problem with that?
     
  15. Beer4B

    Beer4B Initiate (0) Feb 28, 2014 Florida

    Probably not? I don't know. I think those bottles mentioned have a few more reasons to justify higher cost though.

    I just got back from VT and HAPPILY paid $30 for a 750mL of CD 13. Let me tell you, it was fantastic and worth the experience with friends. I am sure many will say the same for these Cakes. My only :grimacing: is the '15 cakes pricing.
     
  16. mikeincharleston

    mikeincharleston Initiate (0) May 1, 2009 North Carolina

    It did sell. That's why it was marked up. Bottles are dwindling so they upped the price
     
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  17. dsigmon

    dsigmon Initiate (0) Jun 20, 2007 Florida

    It's a capitalist market. Why should Westbrook turn down the change to make money? It's just like half you homies on the trading board. Errrrmegeerhhhhdddd, it traded for nilla and prop once out of 100 trades so I'm gonna get 2 x nilla and prop. All of you want to get the max value out of your trades (or at least most of you) but the brewery who makes the beer shouldn't seek a higher return on their own beer? Or even better yet, you have shit like a $20 bottle of morning delight being turned into $475 on MBC and the brewery shouldn't seek out that $455 of lost profits? What makes the consumer worthy of obtaining the actual market value but not the producer? What other business models do you know that are like the beer/wine/bourbon markets? Maybe the breweries are just being smart and finally getting what's theirs. The MARKET determines the value anyway (ie the neckbeards paying 300x cost for a bottle). So if you don't like it, don't buy it. It's really that simple. But don't blame the brewery for making money...it's why the opened to begin with. How many companies come out with a business plan, "oh lets just make everyone happy and if we make a few dollars then cool, if not, whatev's?"
     
  18. Mangbus

    Mangbus Initiate (0) Aug 25, 2014 Florida

    Please quit referencing MBC (not just you, everyone.) That is not the market. That is one market. That is a few rich dudes not giving a fuck about their money and 'doing whatever it takes to get the latest hype bottle.' They don't represent the average beer release attendee or beer fan that drives a good distance to try new beer.

    There are plenty of other business models like beer/wine/bourbon markets. Any in demand collectible falls victim to this same situation (retailers selling for a low, accessible price and buyers flipping them for major profits in the secondary market.)
     
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  19. greensparkplug

    greensparkplug Initiate (82) Nov 28, 2014 North Carolina
    Trader

    You're making a great argument for ABInBev and craft brewery acquisition.
     
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  20. dsigmon

    dsigmon Initiate (0) Jun 20, 2007 Florida

    That isn't the only market. People immediately reference MBC for their trade values. I mentioned that as well. "Oh man, my nilla is selling for $200 and that Assassin I want is for $300 so that means to land an Assassin I need to add $100 worth of secondary market beer to my trade." You see shit like that all the time. That directly affects the trade market bc people use it as a point of reference. So then those of us who actually like to drink beer and not hold it like a f'ing stock end up never trying these beers that have value derived completely from what they are selling for on MBC or other stupid methods of valuation. It's no longer, "hey, I have this great limited beer so lets trade for your great limited beer."

    Well for that to happen someone has to agree to being bought out. That would be the brewery owner. If they want to make money by selling their successful brewery to ABInBev then so be it. They built it up, they can profit from it. It's not like there won't be a million other small breweries popping up all over the place chasing the same dream of making it big. There is nothing wrong with success through selling out when you busted your ass for years to make it successful.
     
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  21. raverjames

    raverjames Initiate (0) Dec 11, 2003 Virginia

    C.R.E.A.M.
    The craft beer industry is no longer a big grassroots hippy lovefest. The sooner you realize this, the less f@cks you will give.
     
  22. DrewBrew87

    DrewBrew87 Initiate (0) Dec 17, 2013 South Carolina

    I've been saying it for years, breweries don't charge enough for their highly sought after and limited/rare beers. It would cut down on the fanboys, the hoarding, buying only to trade or resale at a markup, chaotic releases, etc. People bitched last year that the price per bottle went to $30. Guess what, it still sold out within hours (and it only took that long because of the weather). They could have increased the priced to $50 per bottle this year and people would have bitched, but guess what, it still would have sold out quickly.

    If you don't like the fact a rare beer is being sold for $100+, you're mad at the wrong person. Don't be mad at the brewery for selling at that price. Be mad at the people that are willing to pay that price. The fact is, a year from now those bottles will have all sold out, especially given the reviews they gotten so far. Demand > Supply translates to an increased price. All of these breweries are businesses and businesses need to make money.

    You can argue those prices on a bottle list will hurt their reputation and ultimately their sales numbers, but I honestly doubt that. There's just a handful of people bitching on the internet, most of whom don't live in their distro area and/or don't drink their year round stuff regularly anyways. I'll continue to drink the Gose religiously, because it's delicious, and I won't lose any sleep or think negatively of their business in anyway due to the fact I will probably never get to try Pappy Mexican Cake. The value simply is not there for me personally to spend that much on a beer, but plenty of people have already established the fact that the value is there for them.

    I know a guy who just bought two bottles of Bourbon Cake for $60 each and a lot of people would say that he got a good deal (in terms of black market prices). Is it fair that some Charleston resident just made $60 off of Westbrook's product? That's not mentioning the other bottles he sold. The demand is there for these beers at a substantial markup, so I don't mind a brewery selling their own product at an increased price point.
     
    #342 DrewBrew87, Oct 13, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015
  23. Mangbus

    Mangbus Initiate (0) Aug 25, 2014 Florida

    In the 50+ trades I've managed to get done on this site, I've never had anyone bring up MBC or 'secondary price' when working through the trade.

    Time to establish regular trade partners. If someone references MBC, I won't deal with them.
     
  24. mxracercam

    mxracercam Disciple (363) Jan 14, 2014 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    I'm honestly surprised that more breweries with highly sought after beer haven't tested the upper limits of the market yet.
     
  25. PurdueBrewCrew

    PurdueBrewCrew Initiate (0) May 28, 2015 North Carolina

    Hill Farmstead tried this by charging $40 for a 375ml bottle of BA stout (yeah yeah some of that went to charity - as if more than a small fraction of people who bought those bottles cared). They still had people jumping out of moving cars to get in line at 8:30 in the morning.
     
  26. ADTaber

    ADTaber Savant (999) Apr 29, 2011 South Carolina
    Trader

    If you think it's too expensive then don't buy it. /thread
     
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  27. CaptainFleeker

    CaptainFleeker Defender (659) Aug 27, 2012 Illinois
    Trader

    I'm not. I'm in the "I don't care what WB charges" camp. However, I think there are many (not all) brewers that personally/ethically have a hard time charging huge amounts for their limited beers and that's why you don't see many breweries going along with the "onsite consumption only BA Cake" pricing method.
     
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  28. greensparkplug

    greensparkplug Initiate (82) Nov 28, 2014 North Carolina
    Trader

    Not a fan of beer-related discourse?
     
  29. Kramerbarthomer

    Kramerbarthomer Champion (827) Mar 22, 2012 Colorado
    Trader

    Which one was this? I don't remember them ever charging that much for a BA stout.
     
  30. PurdueBrewCrew

    PurdueBrewCrew Initiate (0) May 28, 2015 North Carolina

    Double-Barrel Damon was 37.50 or something like that I think, part of which was donated to a local charity.
     
  31. Kramerbarthomer

    Kramerbarthomer Champion (827) Mar 22, 2012 Colorado
    Trader

    Wow, ridiculous.
     
  32. nmyers462000

    nmyers462000 Initiate (0) Oct 1, 2013 Florida

    Exactly... the consumer dictates at the end of the day, and the consumer base is growing and diversifying. More demand...

    Dead on.... BA Mexican Cake was $30 per bottle. Probably could have went to $40 and no one bats an eye-lash.

    These two quotes marry up very well, because if we as the consumer want more (increased demand) we have to be prepared to deal with scarcity and price points that are trending upward. This way breweries like Westbrook can continue to grow (see the new building) and expand capacity in hopes of catching up with demand. Though, by it's nature, releases like BA Mexican Cake will always be limited, so there will always be some form of consternation.

    Back on the topic.... Westbrook did an excellent job overall with the bottle release and managing the "uber" whalez.
     
    #352 nmyers462000, Oct 13, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015
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  33. nmyers462000

    nmyers462000 Initiate (0) Oct 1, 2013 Florida

    I'm with you in the "i don't care what <Insert Brewery> charges" either.

    We don't see this in bottles often simply because breweries can keg their product. We see tap room only beers all the time, and special beers are usually a buck or two more each. Which over the course of a sixtel/half-barrel adds up quickly.
     
    #353 nmyers462000, Oct 13, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015
  34. zac16125

    zac16125 Poo-Bah (2,193) Jan 26, 2010 South Carolina
    Society Trader

    I completely agree with this statement. I don't trade nearly as much as I used to, but I will say I come across the "well my beer sells for $x on the secondary market so I'm looking for a beer that sells for about the same in return" way more often than I used to. In fact when I started trading beer, which was only about 4-5 years ago, I never once heard/saw that or any reference to secondary market.
     
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  35. abb610

    abb610 Initiate (0) Oct 14, 2010 North Carolina

    Congrats to WB for taking water and making it into such a profitable item. But fuck gree
    Congrats to WB on being able to take water and make it into such a profitable item but, fuck greed maaaan, fuck greed.
     
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  36. CaptainFleeker

    CaptainFleeker Defender (659) Aug 27, 2012 Illinois
    Trader

    Elasticity. Google it. It's unfortunate, but we help build this monster.
     
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  37. CavemanRamblin

    CavemanRamblin Initiate (0) Jun 19, 2014 North Carolina
    Deactivated

    We all took Econ 101 but thanks anyway.
     
  38. DawgPhan

    DawgPhan Initiate (0) Mar 23, 2012 Georgia

    dont care what any brewery charges for their beer. But if they want to act like wal-mart dont be surprised when people treat them like wal-mart.

    Also comparison between WB and HF are laughable. One is considered by many to one of the best brewers in the world and one puts hot sauce in beer and sells it for a premium.
     
    Macsimus likes this.
  39. floridadrift

    floridadrift Initiate (0) Oct 24, 2014 Florida

    Who are all of you and what do you keep doing to this thread? Thank you Westbrook for charging $33 dollars for BAMC, which is appropriate, the beer has been tried and it has been weighed and tested and it's fantastic; because of this, it holds a secondary value, irregardless if you want to purchase it initially at the release, in a bundle of six this year WITH PROXYs available or after the fact on a secondary market. They have been knocking this beer out of the park since at least 2013, as far as I know. The same goes for Hill Farmstead's releases, Cigar City's releases, Goose Island's releases and of course, the murderer of murderer's Toppling Goliath. Give the whining and point-making a rest and just let us know if Pappy or Double Barrel silent releases.
     
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