Welcome to BeerAdvocate!

Looking to talk, rate or trade beer? Join today by creating your free account.

Dismiss Notice
Curious about recent updates to the site and app? Check the Announcements forum for updates.
Dismiss Notice
Love Belgian Beer?

Join us Sep 17 in Portland, Maine for Return of the Belgian Beer Fest, featuring hundreds of authentic Belgian beers and Belgian-inspired offerings.

Tickets + more: beeradvocate.com/belgian

Bad feedback retaliation

Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk' started by chippo33, Jul 30, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. blue-dream

    blue-dream Moderator
    Staff Member Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2013
    Posts:
    1,167
    Likes Received:
    16,695
    Location:
    Virgin Islands (U.S.)
    Good read, i'd pound again.
     
    kmello69 likes this.
  2. Mag00n

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2008
    Posts:
    717
    Likes Received:
    836
    Location:
    New York
    Seems to me you had every opportunity to bring up your concerns when you met in person? This seems like a 'neutral' situation to me, I personally think negative feedback should only be left for those who steal/con/cheat people.
     
    mendvicdog, jshusc and MattOC like this.
  3. HighLowJack

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Posts:
    1,254
    Likes Received:
    842
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    lots of people aren't super comfortable with an in person confrontation like that, and sometimes these things just happen fast enough that it's not really obvious it didn't go exactly as planned. or maybe the lack of beers just confuses you and questions whether or not you were thinking of the right deal and you don't want to be a jerk and bring it up and be wrong.

    I have personally forgot to bring beers to an IP trade, and the other party (maybe?) realized it but didn't say anything IP. he messaged me later, presumably bc he needed time to check his messages and make sure he was in the right.

    (I ended up just mailing the missing beers about 20 miles away :) )
     
  4. kmello69

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Posts:
    4,060
    Likes Received:
    5,560
    Location:
    Texas
    I'd say this merits neutral feedback. Yes, you asked her to look at your list and suggest something, which she apparently never did, but you also clearly noted that you were short $ on your end, and should have worked to clarify that before going to do the trade. Personally, I'd never dicker about a $5 difference, but some people want to be right on the $.

    Seems like there was some weak communication on both sides (as is often the case with issues like these) and neither of you went out of your way to clear it up.

    Just my $0.02
     
    cfh64, Yohann, MattOC and 1 other person like this.
  5. MattOC

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2013
    Posts:
    1,115
    Likes Received:
    1,173
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Thanks for the feedback. I agree, more could have been done on my part. My biggest issue was the Bad feedback instead Okay feedback.
     
    nc41 likes this.
  6. jshusc

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2013
    Posts:
    570
    Likes Received:
    11,578
    Location:
    South Carolina
    I think it was a fair trade, and if it wasn't considered fair by Jane, then she had the opportunity to pull out of it. I understand wanting to avoid confrontation, but they had traded before and everything was cordial to that point. I'm sure she could have give matt the Soigne for the dinners, and he'd be fine keeping his FWXVII.

    This was one of two things (neither of which warrant negative feedback and arguably not even neutral): 1) buyer's remorse (i.e., she completed the trade, and then stewed over it and felt like she could have gotten more value for her bottle), or 2) a complaint about an extra (don't really need to go further). I understand $4$ concerns, but it was 6 bucks. A properly cellared, 2 year old BCBS...I'd GLADLY pay 6 bucks for it any day of the week.

    Certainly, no one got screwed in this trade. I've made plenty of trades that I kind of regret, but buyer's remorse is on the buyer, not the seller.
     
    JavaNoire likes this.
  7. Kramerbarthomer

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2012
    Posts:
    1,227
    Likes Received:
    13,375
    Location:
    Colorado
    I would say you both need to work on communication skills. Big time. If you don't like the trade, say something at the time the trade is made. But it's absolutely ridiculous to leave negative feedback on a trade when the conditions of the trade were met by both parties. Just my two cents.
     
  8. ShanePB

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Posts:
    2,533
    Likes Received:
    3,336
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I don't think that warrants Negative feedback for Matt. Neutral? Absolutely. In the end, he came close to $4$ and even if it's a dollar or two off, really? That's nothing to cry over, IMO. Communication on both sides could have been better, but that is leaving a stale taste in my mouth that Matt got dinged with Negative feedback for that.
     
  9. hansenm72

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Posts:
    219
    Likes Received:
    1,303
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    I always like the bad trader posts where there is one amazing BA that steps up and makes things right for the victim... today I'll be that guy. Jane... go ahead and BM me your email address and I'll PayPal you the $6 so you can leave Matt positive feedback! Applaud me everyone.
     
  10. JavaNoire

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Posts:
    471
    Likes Received:
    1,193
    Location:
    Iowa
    Matt clearly deserved positive fb. Positive doesn't mean perfect. Smooth, friendly trading requires that people be reasonable, courteous, slow to take offense & willing to make minor accommodations when possible.

    I've given BCBS as an extra. I've received it as an extra. It's among those beers I consider to be always welcome. I'm never unhappy receiving more even though I've already got it.

    Dissing on BCBS seems to be deliberate fault finding, ie complaints were going to be piled on regardless of how flimsy they were.

    Jane had multiple opportunities to decline the additional trade or to be forthcoming as to what she'd accept. She declined to do so, which is hard to understand, as the $6 difference is clearly important to her.
     
    jshusc and blue-dream like this.
  11. Janeinma

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    May 24, 2009
    Posts:
    525
    Likes Received:
    411
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I have admitted my communication sucked it was way from my norm. I have taken blame from the start and don't deny it.
    I made the comment about no extras because it explains why the miscommunication happened.
    Matt may not remember but the BCBS part started by him saying I looked at your likes and got this for you. That is what most people say for extras, it just about mirrored what I said to him regarding extras.
    it was a surprise two weeks later to find it was the evener without that part being discussed.
    I think my communication afterwards showed I thought we had an outstanding trade to be figured later and that was just an extra. that was my honest impression of the situation, hence my confusion.

    This trade had bad communication and was rushed on two sides
    one because I was about to go to HF and on the other side because the day I messaged him about having the beers he was very close and near his beer cellar and I think wanted to close it out- sorry Matt just my perception so forgive me if I am wrong.
    If we had stopped and maybe even talked on the phone it may have been different. I really though the trade would go down later in the week and we could communicate last details then as I never demand whales.
    I did not communicate that he had no beers on his got list I wanted.
    The whole point was I was trying to work out something to make it work, obviously it didn't.
    I should have just suggested he pay me for it straight up cash no trade involved or just nixed the whole thing.
    I reached out to ask for the ability to change the feedback to a neutral this morning. I don't feel warm and fuzzy and feel I probably ended a little short but I will move it to a neutral stating 'joint bad communication lead to crossed wires' if I get the chance.
    Big lesson never follow through a trade until everything is written in stone and if your trade partner rushes you close the trade and stop.
     
    jshusc likes this.
  12. jrnyc

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2010
    Posts:
    3,967
    Likes Received:
    7,808
    Location:
    New York
    My head hurts from reading this, honestly can't make it through this thread. Janeinma, the spacing, lack of spacing, 1 sentence paragraphs make it impossible to read. Would love to add me worthless 2 cents to this thread but I think I will just wait for the next bad trader thread to surface.
     
  13. F2brewers

    F2brewers Moderator
    Staff Member Fest Crew Subscriber Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Posts:
    1,166
    Likes Received:
    3,635
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    You should be able to do this without outside help:
    • Cick the "trading" tab
    • Click the "sent" link
    • Click the "edit" button underneath the avatar of your trade partner
    • Edit away
    LMK if this doesn't work.

    Separately, yes, I think this thread has run its course.

    A bit off-topic from the OP's thread, but good information for all traders to have and insight into how to use (or perhaps not use) the feedback system effectively.

    As ever, communication is the key.

    If you're not sure, ask.

    If you're uncomfortable with any aspect of the trade, get clarification before proceeding.

    We're all learning all the time. Even experienced traders can pick up tips from these threads.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  • About Us

    Your go-to website for beer (since 1996), publishers of BeerAdvocate magazine (since 2006) and hosts of world-class beer events (since 2003). Respect Beer.
  • Return of the Belgian Beer Fest

    BeerAdvocate Brings its All-Belgian Fest to Portland, Maine on September 17, 2016. Tickets are on sale now.

    Learn More
  • Get the Mag

    Become a BeerAdvocate magazine print subscriber today.

    Subscribe