Bad Math, save my beer please!

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Zonk, Jul 6, 2016.

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  1. Zonk

    Zonk Initiate (0) Dec 2, 2014 New Jersey

    I brewed 3.5 gallons of an extract pale ale recently that I split into a 2.5 gallon batch and also 1 gal batch using a different yeast. somehow when I scaled the recipe I figured the extract for just 2.5 gallons, so I'm looking at a thin 3.6% beer. I should have caught this earlier but was rushed and had some issues with OG reading when I brewed originally (and figured it was fine since it was extract). I'm a week in and already added dry hop. Would it be reasonable to add some boiled extract wort at this point, and if so, should I be re-aerating the whole thing since its essentially going to do another fermentation?
     
  2. Hogue2112

    Hogue2112 Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2016 Ohio

    Use it as a yeast starter for another beer and have some crushable beer on hand!
     
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  3. Zonk

    Zonk Initiate (0) Dec 2, 2014 New Jersey

    While its not out of the question, its pretty darn thin. Even most of the AAL's clock in at like 4.2% Plus it really isn't going to stand up to the dry hop I dropped in before realizing (.75 oz amarillo and .25 citra in the 2.5 gal and equivalent in the 1g).
     
  4. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    Add some Malto-Dextrin powder at bottling. It is unfermentable and will add some body back to it, just don't add too much.
     
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  5. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I have had numerous 3.6% ABV Pale Ales (Bitter Ales) in the UK and as long as the beer had a bit of body I enjoyed drinking them. When they were too thin they had a watery quality which I personally did not enjoy.

    IMO @jbakajust1 has the right suggestion to just add some Malto-Dextrin powder at bottling to ensure that this beer has a bit of body to it.

    Cheers!
     
  6. Zonk

    Zonk Initiate (0) Dec 2, 2014 New Jersey

    Thanks guys, sounds like consensus is don't add anything fermentable at this point. Any particular reason? Oxidation? Beer was intended to be 5.2% btw. Kolsch yeast on the left s-05 on the right.

    [​IMG]
     
    #6 Zonk, Jul 6, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2016
  7. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I have never added malt extract to a beer after the yeast was pitched (let alone one week later). I have no idea whether there will be problems in doing this. Maybe you could run this experiment and report back your findings?

    Cheers!
     
  8. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    Because this late in the game the yeast have finished doing there work and settled down. If you add new fermentables they may not do all the work needed to finish the job, and then finish it in the bottles over time creating bottle bombs. There is also the potential that if they do finish up in a week or so (not just fermenting the added fermentables, but cleaning up byproducts) the fresh punch of the dry hops may have changed.
     
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  9. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Good point. I have no idea whether the risk of yeast not fully fermenting the fermentables in the primary but would do so in the bottle is quantifiable but I personally would choose to not accept that risk.

    Cheers!
     
  10. Zonk

    Zonk Initiate (0) Dec 2, 2014 New Jersey

    Thanks, I kind of figured since its all extract I could recalculate the intended FG based on the total fermentables and know if I was finished based on that. I would definitely be dealing with "bio-transformation" if I kicked the ferment into high gear again here, but I'm not necessarily opposed to that. Really just a lot of question marks.
     
  11. Zonk

    Zonk Initiate (0) Dec 2, 2014 New Jersey

    While the risk of stuck fermentation isn't quantifiable, I should have a good idea of attenuation based on total fermentables vs total liquid sand FG since I'm all extract, correct?
     
  12. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    While there are ways to estimate an expected final gravity (e.g., tools like Beersmith, Brewers Friend on-line calculator, etc.) I have no idea how accurate these tools are under all conditions.

    You could certainly try this with your beer with the assumption that a two-step process will yield the same 'answer' and that the tool (calculation) will yield an accurate answer. I would recommend that if you go this route that it would be prudent to treat the resulting beer with extra care. Maybe store your bottles inside of a container to contain potential explosions of the bottle bombs in case they happen.

    Unless somebody chimes in with a post that they did exactly what you are proposing to do and experienced zero issues you are breaking new ground here.

    Like many aspects of homebrewing you are in control of your homebrewery so you are the ultimate decider here.

    Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

    Cheers!
     
  13. Zonk

    Zonk Initiate (0) Dec 2, 2014 New Jersey

    On the advice of board members I added some extract to a fermenting previous batch where I got much less efficiency than expected in a partial mash, it was albeit a few days earlier in the cycle. It seems the new territory would be if the yeast re-activate at this point, and what the dry hop would do to things. Again thanks for all the advice.
     
  14. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    It is not as simple to calculate an expected FG for extract as it is for AG as you don't know the mashing parameters nor the actual grain bill used to make the extract.
     
  15. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    A few thoughts...
    - Maybe change your major from math to English? The English have learned that a 3.6% ale is not necessarily a bad thing. You might see if you can live with it.
    - Throwing out 2.5 gallons shouldn't break your bank or your heart.
    - Trying to rescue a beer from a mistake can be a challenge. It can be a fun learning experience, but be prepared for failure.
    - You might be better off devoting your time and money to a new small batch.
     
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  16. ssam

    ssam Pundit (997) Dec 2, 2008 California

    I lol-ed.
     
  17. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    How about leaving the two beers in primary while you brew a triple-malted version of the recipe in a 1-gallon batch and then blend the beers when the new one is done fermenting?
     
  18. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    IMO, many half baked fixes (like adding fermentables after the dry hop stage) can be worse than the problems they are intended to fix. I'd let it ride.

    Or, taste it at bottling time, and add some maltodextrin if warranted. Actually, I'm not really sure how readily maltodextrin will dissolve in room/fermentation temp beer. If nobody can answer that definitively, you might want dissolve it in the smallest amount of boiling water that will do the trick.

    @jbakajust1 have you added maltodextrin powder directly to beer?
     
  19. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    I've never tried adding it to a beer, just as you suggested, in boiling water. I measured out the proper amount of sucrose to carbonate and then added the maltodextrin with it to a pint of boiling water, then mixed into bottling bucket.
     
    MrOH likes this.
  20. chavinparty

    chavinparty Zealot (653) Jan 4, 2015 New Hampshire

    That's not very pale. Might have some body already. Could be tasty
     
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