Bad Trader: @bstyle

Discussion in 'Bad Traders' started by SierraNevallagash, Feb 27, 2020.

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  1. William_Navidson

    William_Navidson Initiate (186) May 1, 2015 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    He's saying that you knew that the accused bad trader was expected to explain his side of the story.

    This is an example of the sort of basic communication mishap that tends to occur in many of your encounters on this site. I think people might get the impression that you're being intentionally obtuse (but some of the other threads linked give me the impression that maybe it isn't intentional).
     
  2. UcDru

    UcDru Devotee (423) Aug 15, 2013 Ohio
    Trader

    Solid analogy terrible spelling and grammar though...

    You know how to create a bad trader thread because I am currently communicating to you on your bad trader thread. Also you know how a bad trader thread works because you made a comment that essentially sums up the goal for a bad trader thread in a previous bad trader thread.

    I dont want any quantum mechanics youtube videos..

    Should all be clear now.
     
  3. SierraNevallagash

    SierraNevallagash Defender (673) Sep 23, 2018 Maine
    Trader

    I didn't create the thread properly, nor did I follow through with it properly, and I did two things I should not have done. That's what everyone is upset about. So get upset for me making a mistake in the BT thread, get upset for me acknowledging I made a mistake, but then tell me I know exactly what I'm doing? Clearly I don't if I screwed this up so bad.
     
  4. Jimmy_Kneecaps

    Jimmy_Kneecaps Aspirant (251) Sep 19, 2017 Tennessee
    Trader

    Here’s an idea, a suggestion if you will, maybe don’t reply to every single person who has a comment. Just a thought.
     
  5. UcDru

    UcDru Devotee (423) Aug 15, 2013 Ohio
    Trader

    One thing is for sure: you are very good at using so many words and saying so little. It is obvious you are choosing the play dumb approach here or maybe you have a really short memory. In any case I wish you all the best in your resolution of this trade and your future bad trader thread learning.

    Don't hesitate to tag a mod or 4 if you need help to ensure you get the attention you need!
     
  6. Syracuse12

    Syracuse12 Disciple (374) Aug 21, 2012 New Jersey
    Trader

    Don't waste your breath, he doesn't believe in tips.
     
    Dan_K, meefmoff, Bunuelian and 16 others like this.
  7. FBarber

    FBarber Poo-Bah (3,168) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
    Society Trader

    Damn, beat me to it.
     
  8. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Poo-Bah (2,628) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Moderator Society Trader

    As this thread has totally spiralled out of control in multiple ways, it will be locked for the time being, probably until such a time that OP has received his box and it can get back on topic.

    Maybe this will give people time to reflect on their trolling and off-topic discussions in here and allow them to continue this thread in an adult and constructive fashion. Thank you.
     
  9. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,941) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society

    Update: I've been asked to review this thread by the mod team, who did some cleaning up. I've restored most of the posts, but the posts trolling mods (who are only trying to their job) and the site have been removed. Please read our terms/rules.

    Hope everything works out for both parties, and thanks to the community and mods for dealing with this bad trader thread.
     
  10. John_M

    John_M Poo-Bah (6,552) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Moderator Society Trader

    @SierraNevallagash

    FedEx indicates your box was delivered this morning. Is that correct? If it is, are you satisfied with the contents? Did you receive what you and @bstyle agreed upon?
     
  11. SierraNevallagash

    SierraNevallagash Defender (673) Sep 23, 2018 Maine
    Trader

    Okay, first things first.

    I have just received the box, and the one beer that was promised was in fact included. The contents of the box are: 1 Westvleteren 12, 1 Russian River Beatification, 1 Side Project Amis Pour Toujours, and 1 Side Project Fuzzy. I am unsure if this meets the price point of the box I sent, but as far as what was sent, I am happy with each of the bottles.

    Now, a few things need to be addressed. I handled this thread very poorly. I completely acknowledge that, and I apologise for how I went about some things. When I first started the thread, I was in a very difficult spot, and I wasn't sure if it was the right course of action. I should have taken the advice that was offered, and should have gone about this the way it was suggested that I do. I was initially skeptical and apprehensive about moving forward with a BT thread. I could have started a thread in Trade Talk first to ask if this was appropriate, or I should have moved forward as suggested. I was caught up in trying to give the trader the benefit of the doubt, and hoped I would hear something back. Definitely a misstep on my part, and I apologise for how that was handled. When the tag was made, I shouldn't have given in to the demand to close the thread and retract everything I said, but at the time, given the reaction to the tag, I was worried that this was necessary to ensure the box was sent. That was a big mistake on my part, and I should have just let everything run its course in the moment. I also should not have engaged any of the trolls in this thread. Some of the comments made were entirely uncalled for, irrelevant, and were nothing more than an attempt to get a rise out of me, and further derail the thread. I've come to realise that I really shouldn't be bothered by a bunch of immature, snarky, comments from grown men on the internet who just want to incite drama. Hardly anyone in this thread actually knows who I am, nor do they know the situation, and why should I care about what they have to say, if it's neither constructive nor pertinent to the topic? It's all just silly, and I shouldn't have let it bother me, and I definitely shouldn't have even taken the time to acknowledge and respond to it. Nothing good ever comes from feeding the trolls. Lesson learned.

    The trader actually called me, and while I don't think my point of view was understood - as in, why I was worried about this trade, and why I felt the need to do this, the trader argued that I should have called him, rather than request the box be sent via text. I asked for the box to be shipped between 7 and 10 times, and I felt that this was sufficient enough. Would a phone call have made a difference? I don't know. From my point of view, the thread was necessary, as I was worried the box wasn't going to be sent. The trader is adamant that there was no ill intent, and thinks I overreacted, and that a BT thread was unnecessary. The trader maintains that there was no dishonesty, that there is an original tracking number with a delivery exception, and that they feel no obligation to explain anything or prove anything to anyone. I maintain that from my perspective, there was great concern - which I felt that I expressed, and that two months was due cause for worry after not receiving anything, having asked many times. In the future, if my concerns are not resolved via text/PM, I will consider reaching out more directly, if that is an option. I thought my texts were sufficient, and became concerned enough to take further action.

    This was a mess of a trade, and I hope no one has to go through what I did over what should be a simple, friendly act of exchanging beers. I am glad that the box was finally sent, but it should never have come to this. This has been quite the learning experience, and I've taken some valuable points away from this. I apologise for not taking the helpful advice from the community, I apologise for engaging in the immature dialogue, and I apolgise to the mods and staff who likely had their hands full when this whole thing got out of control. I appreciate the advice that most people gave, and I'm sorry I didn't take it at first. I particularly appreciate the messages sent, and advice that was given behind the scenes. It really highlighted the community aspect of this site, and put into perspective just how great some of you are. If I could go back in time, I would have just done what I should have done from the start.

    As of now, this issue is resolved, though I wish I would have done a few things differently, that hopefully would have resolved this in a much less explosive and volatile fashion. I have learned how to properly conduct a bad trade situation, and I hope that there are others who can take something of value away from my mistakes here. I was entirely out of my element with this, and should have listened to the people who initially tried to help. I want to thank those who were only looking out for my best interest, and i especially want to thank those who privately reached out to offer help and support. I want to apologise to the people who offered advice - for not immediately trusting your judgement, and apolgise to the entire community for the missteps I made that caused this whole thing to drag out and get out of hand. I never wanted a 6 page thread full of arguing, criticism, trolling, and drama. I hope that this can show others the repercussions of being stubborn, and not taking helpful advice from others who ultimately just want to help. The toxicity that formed as a result is truly horrible, but at the end of the day, you have to remember that this is the internet, and you cannot take anything personally. If you don't engage in inflammatory dialogue, then the fault will only lay with those who do.

    Once more, I'm sorry this whole thing got so out of hand, and I apolgise to anyone I may have offended, by not taking your advice, or by passing any judgement. Let's hopefully move past all this, and continue to thrive as a community of Beer Advocates.

    In the end, the issue was resolved, but it never should have come to this, and I sincerely apologise for the role I played in allowing this to play out the way it did. Just being upfront, open, and honest will go a long way when dealing with public issues. I hope many of you can forgive me for the mistakes I made in trying to work out this issue. This has been a true learning experience.

    I wish everyone the best, and hope none of you have to start a thread here.

    Cheers, everyone.
     
  12. 7irondave

    7irondave Zealot (574) Jun 22, 2016 Massachusetts
    Trader

    @SierraNevallagash , did @bstyle ever provide the tracking for the box that experienced the delivery exception?

    Mods, @bstyle is still a trader in good standing. Can we expect to see him with the bad trader tag so anybody who hasn't seen this thread can be well informed?
     
  13. Sabtos

    Sabtos Poo-Bah (7,777) Dec 15, 2015 Ohio
    Society Trader

    I can't believe I made it this far through that slog...but

    Let's see the original tracking number then @bstyle
     
  14. TimG_0913

    TimG_0913 Zealot (562) Oct 6, 2014 Delaware
    Society Trader

    What does that look like? Never seen that before...
     
  15. Sabtos

    Sabtos Poo-Bah (7,777) Dec 15, 2015 Ohio
    Society Trader

    Red flag on your user ID with a Mexican exclamation point ¡Sabtos is a bad mfingtrader mfers!
     
    Affinity, UcDru, Junior and 6 others like this.
  16. Dragginballs76

    Dragginballs76 Poo-Bah (2,521) Nov 13, 2015 South Carolina
    Society Trader

    Cheers, everyone.[/QUOTE]
    I agree with this that they owe no explanation to anyone on BA, unless they want to continue trading here. If this was me and my trading future was on the line I would be here. I am not saying who was right because unless you defend yourself there is no way to know.
     
  17. SierraNevallagash

    SierraNevallagash Defender (673) Sep 23, 2018 Maine
    Trader

    I cannot disagree. If I was accused of anything I wasn't guilty of, I would do everything in my power to explain my side of the story. I cannot speak for him, but I would have really liked for him to give some kind of explanation, and share his side of the story. With only one point of view, it's very difficult to know the truth. I don't expect anyone to side with me, because only my side and opinion has been shared. If I'm seen as the bad trader, then so be it. I'm only guilty of poorly handling the situation, and I know that. At least no one was robbed of a box.

    Cheers
     
  18. Vidblain

    Vidblain Meyvn (1,134) Feb 17, 2017 Minnesota
    Society Trader

    This. The flexing from @bstyle is all pretty boorish without an actual tracking number.

    Glad to see this was resolved, but the bad trader thread was absolutely necessary to conclude this sordid affair.

    Mods - @bstyle and @SierraNevallagash should be required to log feedback on this - at a minimum, @bstyle deserves a neutral feedback, if not a negative. That this is not already in place is ridiculous and leaves every trader on BA at risk. If this can't be enforced, then the bad trader tag is definitely merited.
     
  19. brutalfarce

    brutalfarce Devotee (455) Mar 23, 2018 Connecticut
    Society Trader

    I cannot disagree. If I was accused of anything I wasn't guilty of, I would do everything in my power to explain my side of the story. I cannot speak for him, but I would have really liked for him to give some kind of explanation, and share his side of the story. With only one point of view, it's very difficult to know the truth. I don't expect anyone to side with me, because only my side and opinion has been shared. If I'm seen as the bad trader, then so be it. I'm only guilty of poorly handling the situation, and I know that. At least no one was robbed of a box.

    Cheers[/QUOTE]
    glad you got your box man but please stop apologizing, you didn't get your box until after the thread started so it served its purpose while maybe not the prettiest BT thread it certainly did the job.
     
  20. Dragginballs76

    Dragginballs76 Poo-Bah (2,521) Nov 13, 2015 South Carolina
    Society Trader

    I could not agree with this more, while the OP may be fine with how this turned out it is only fair for potential traders know about this.
     
    Hopelessly0, Vidblain, Junior and 8 others like this.
  21. SierraNevallagash

    SierraNevallagash Defender (673) Sep 23, 2018 Maine
    Trader

    Make no mistake, I'm not happy about any of this. Yes, I'm glad the main issue was resolved (getting the return box), but that's the only bright side to this multifaceted issue. I definitely wouldn't say I'm fine with how this turned out. Quite the opposite, in fact. It's just sad.
     
    Junior and Dragginballs76 like this.
  22. 4truth

    4truth Aspirant (249) Jan 30, 2015 Illinois
    Trader

    If BT didn't dick you around for two months, it never would've happened. BT created a problem which was only solved when you called his ass out.
     
  23. SierraNevallagash

    SierraNevallagash Defender (673) Sep 23, 2018 Maine
    Trader

    I begged for this piece of information. It would have really helped, and I said if nothing else, at least give it to me, and I'll post it. Unfortunately, I can almost promise it isn't going to happen. I made it very clear that's the best thing that you could do, and it will go a long way for some credibility. I haven't even seen the "original tracking number", I highly doubt any one else is going to either.
     
    Junior and Rustytacos like this.
  24. TimG_0913

    TimG_0913 Zealot (562) Oct 6, 2014 Delaware
    Society Trader


    I'm 99.9% sure there was no exception or original tracking. I do believe that something has to come out of this BT thread. Someone was clearly a BT here and we can't let this go without anything being done about it. If this goes without any repercussions, we failed as a community.
     
  25. 7irondave

    7irondave Zealot (574) Jun 22, 2016 Massachusetts
    Trader

    translation:
    The original tracking number never existed and he lied to you and the whole BA community since he had the chance to clear the air on this thread.

    Just another reason why he is a bad trader, deserves a negative review and the BT tag
     
  26. dmbforever

    dmbforever Crusader (768) May 8, 2013 Wisconsin
    Moderator Society Trader

    To be clear, as a moderator, we can NOT enforce people to accept the trade request. That is why we are leaving the bad trader title as is and not *resolved* because atleast there is is one avenue to cross reference on the bad trader @bstyle

    We can NOT also tag traders with the red banner anymore.

    At the end of the day its trade at your own risk, there is ONLY so much we can do as moderators and a community.

    Appreciate the help from everyone, as without this thread, the OP wouldnt have gotten his box....and yes the system we have is not perfect.

    Looks like we are done here.

    Cheers!!
     
  27. John_M

    John_M Poo-Bah (6,552) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Moderator Society Trader

    OK. So a couple of last things I would like to say before closing this thread (I'll try to keep this concise and succinct).

    @SierraNevallagash confirmed that the contents of the box he received were acceptable and included pretty much everything he was hoping for. That's always the primary purpose of these BT trades, and I'm glad to see @SierraNevallagash got the box of beer he was hoping for in the end.

    With respect to the @bstyle, it would appear he continues to be completely in denial about his responsibility for what took place. @SierraNevallagash showed me a number of screen shots of some of their text dialogue, most of which were laced with profanities and were borderline threatening (the one's from @bstyle). Repeatedly, he told @SierraNevallagash that he wanted the BT thread closed immediately, and he clearly held @SierraNevallagash responsible for not getting it shut down.

    There are a couple of things that I found interesting about @bstyle's behavior in this whole sorry mess. Although he clearly feels blameless, and feels that he was victimized by @SierraNevallagash, not once did he ever express any interest in trying to defend himself in this thread, or any interest in explaining his actions (repeated promises to ship the beer he owed @SierraNevallagash that were never fulfilled, until the BT thread was created).

    One of the things I mentioned to @SierraNevallagash early on... as BT behavior goes, this particular episode is/was not all that egregious. It would have been so easy (not to mention appropriate) for @bstyle to come on this thread, mention that he was busy and time got away from him, that he would now get the box out immediately, and maybe apologize for the inconvenience he caused. My guess is that most of us would have understood that kind of response, and most of us would have given him a pass, with the recommendation that he do a better job communicating with his trading partners in the future. Yet apparently that thought never entered his mind.

    Anyway, @SierraNevallagash mentioned that @bstyle did accept the renewed trade request, and so he will now be able to leave appropriate feedback for this latest fiasco.

    I'll leave this thread open for a few more hours if anyone would like to comment further, and will then close the thread down later tonight.
     
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